40 replies to this topic

[Vendayn]

I decided instead of using chat, I'll just make a thread about it. Don't expect it to be the most detailed, and no, no pictures. The most action happens at night (until Winter, but I don't know if both Pheidole megacephala and Argentine ants will disappear. Usually Argentine ants disappear for most part). But, since action happens at night I have no way to take pictures or video or anything and I can't light up the area when people are trying to sleep. My cameras I have access to are bad enough as it is. Also this first post will be long, future updates will be short as I will only focus on certain areas of where most action is (whether it be massive battles, or important locations they expanded to)

 

Also, I actually don't care who wins. Personally, I think Pheidole megacephala are a lot more fun and exciting to watch, plus they make cool nests. Argentine ants are most boring ant in the whole world. Even if they were native, still be the most boring and mundane ant to me lol. Personal reasons aside, I think Argentine ants are a (tiny bit) better for the environment. Though Solenopsis invicta (the invasive form of multiple queens) still being worse by far to me than both of them. Luckily no more S. invicta around here. 

 

Anyway. Some notes.

 

Pheidole megacephala do expand on their own, but the vast majority of their expansion is raiding Argentine ant colonies or retaliating against the Argentine ant aggression and then moving into their conquered area. They have however expanded in many areas without conquering any ants. 

 

Pheidole megacephala may expand relatively slow (but considering they haven't been in the area for long its pretty good), but the areas they move into are heavily "condensed" populations of Pheidole ants. This is different than when I dig into Argentine ants. The Argentine ants occupy large areas and move into areas fast, but not very condensed colonies. 

 

Brachymyrmex patagonicus are interesting. They pushed back the Pheidole megacephala expanding in one area, and actively "block" Pheidole megacephala inside their colonies. Granted, this does not matter much because Pheidole megacephala are mostly subterranean anyway. However, the Brachymyrmex do not have this much aggression against Argentine ants. Against Argentine ants its 1-2% at most. There seems little effect overall though on populations of Pheidole megacephala, and have had no effect on any wars between the Ph. megacephala and Argentine ants.

 

Argentine ant strategy of moving into an area and occupying it does not work well at all against Pheidole megacephala. Why you may ask? This method works well on small populations of ants (even single queened Solenopsis invicta colonies). This does not work on CONDENSED but huge populations of ants. And while Argentine ants move in fast, they aren't nearly as good at recruiting as Pheidole megacephala. Not only that...again Pheidole megacephala are subterranean. Occupying above ground when vast majority of ants are underground doesn't work as much. Finally, Pheidole megacephala use Argentine ant's strategy against them. They use groups of Pheidole megacephala to keep Argentine ants busy in one area, then attack weaker areas of Argentine ants. In this, they often end up blocking the path of Argentine ants and surrounding the large group of occupying Argentine ants and kill them off. That, or/and the Pheidole megacephala go straight to the Argentine ant nest itself while they are distracted by occupying. Plus Pheidole megacephala are just better fighters I noticed.

The Argentine ants always do the attacking against the Pheidole megacephala. This seems to kick up Pheidole megacephala raiding instincts and actually makes them expand a lot more...so Pheidole megacephala benefit from being attacked (thus far). Argentine ants attack one or two or sometimes three days, and the 2nd to 4th day the Pheidole megacephala kick up their recruiting and go from a stalemate to beating the Argentine ants. They do however are almost always on the defensive first day and that is the day they are weakest. I haven't seen the Pheidole megacephala be the attackers against the Argentine ants in any major conflict thus far.

 

Finally. Argentine ants however have one major advantage. They recruit from VERY far away, Pheidole megacephala don't seem to do this (despite Pheidole megacephala better at recruiting). I've seen Argentine ants travel far distances to join the war fronts. 

As for areas I talk about...

 

These are the areas I talk about in the journal:
1. Central dumpster area (plant/garage area surrounded by a road, with concrete drainage paths along connecting two opposite areas. The Pheidole megacephala make heavy use of expanding to disconnected locations by these concrete drainage paths. They past week 100% conquered this area and kicked all the Argentine ants out. A few months ago there was at least over 100,000 Argentine ants in this area. Huge wars were happening here 2 months ago)

1a. Drainage East Poolside

1b. Drainage West Pondside (recently 100% taken over)

 

2. Southern Grassy Border (this is the big area of a lot happening currently as of this post. Huge expansion of Pheidole megacephala here, meeting heavy attacks by Argentine ants.)

 

3. Northwest Grassy Border (refer to #2 for the proper description. I made a slight mistake with the area. This is the area a lot has recently happened)

 

4. Northeast Grassy Border (Same connected area as #3. And, since last night, Argentine ants moved in and started attacking this area. However, not nearly as many Argentine ants as Northwest Grassy Border. This area I'll update in an hour or two, but it looked like the Pheidole megacephala were easily pushing back earlier today.)

 

5. Western Poolside (this area the Pheidole megacephala moved in from 1a. In this area it doesn't take much expansion to get to one of the pools inside the complex. In this area connects to the river after the pool, and also will be massive wars in the future. From the pool, the Argentine ants can amass millions of ants. A near infinite supply of ants from past the pond along the river area. However, currently, as of 2-3 weeks ago the Pheidole megacephala conquered a tree that was heavily fortified by Argentine ants. The battle lasted two weeks and the Argentine ants lost. I'll update this area in an hour or two as well, since earlier it looked like Argentine ants were trying to move in. But I'm not sure if it was an actual attack or some explorers.

 

6. Western Garages (this area hasn't seen much expansion or activity by the Pheidole megacephala. However as of adding this area entry, there was quite a large battle of Argentine ants and Ph. megacephala.)

 

7. -- (none yet)

 

Here is a picture showing the areas and current battles, in the worst paint map you'll ever see in your life

 

 

In any case, on to the journal. I'll sum up some stuff I've added in chat...

 

So far the Pheidole megacephala have won every single fight against the Argentine ants. The Ph. megacephala are even winning big fights (which I'll update again in 1-2 hours with a couple of these) against the Argentine ants. Less than a week ago the Argentine ants moved into the southern grassy border of the Pheidole megacephala colony boundary by the 10s of thousands. First impressions I thought there was too many Argentine ants. However, last night and the night before clearly was not the case. The war was a stalemate at first (as been every battle so far between the two supercolonies) and then two nights ago the Pheidole megacephala instead pushed back and completely stopped the Argentine ants from getting deep into their territory. Keep in mind, apartment buildings block most of the are,so the ants are funneled into chokepoints. Since then (as of last night) the Pheidole megacephala have greatly expanded toward the Argentine ant area from where they were coming from and pushed them back a lot.

 

Going back a ways, a completely different part of the supercolony, at Western Poolside as I said in the part of areas I talk about...the Pheidole megacephala won a 2 week long battle against the Argentine ants and took over a tree that had a huge Argentine ant colony in it. It did look like Argentine ants were attacking, just a few. I'll look later and see what it looks like.

 

Overall, Pheidole megacephala have expanded a huge amount last month and some expansions this month. But, have lost not a single battle at all. Even against 10s of thousands of Argentine ants. Even one area of 100,000+ they easily won. However, these are all small battles compared to battles they'll face in further expansions. Especially if they get close to the pond or the pool areas. I may however not be here to see that, because if I move next year, well won't be watching them after I move. Until then, I can update on the areas they are battling and expanding into.

Edited by Vendayn, December 9 2018 - 9:43 PM.

[Vendayn]

GeorgeK had a good idea that I can do a paint made map showing what the area looks like and where the borders and conflicts are. It be paint, so it be junk. But it be better than a description and still give visualization of where things are. Would be quick to make, but won't be able to get to it till this weekend at earliest.

 

For now...

 

Both Southern and Northern Grassy borders are now downgraded to skirmishes. Argentine ants are sending a lot less ants, and Pheidole ants securing the areas they expanded to that the Argentine ants were trying to occupy. Both battles heavily in Pheidole megacephala favor. I won't update on these areas for now unless something changes.

 

However a new front has opened. I didn't add it in the areas part, but (and this is where a paint map would be handy now) it looks like the Pheidole megacephala expanded greatly along the road past a bunch of garages. I did see them earlier in the year but this is the area the Brachymyrmex pushed them back. In this area, tonight I saw a conflict of thousands of Argentine ants going toward many thousands of Pheidole megacephala. Looked like a very large battle and a big conflict. Still not nearly as many Argentine ants as Southern Grassy Border, but also not nearly as many Pheidole megacephala around this area either. I'll post tomorrow what the battlegrounds look like, since couldn't tell who was winning or losing or if it was a stalemate. 

[Vendayn]

In the Northern Garages the Argentine ants made a colony, in one of the tiny plant areas that are between each garage. It actually looked like no one won or lost. But initial advantage (as usual) to the Argentine ants since they made a colony right by the Pheidole megacephala. I'll look later and see what it looks like. I'm not so sure about this one since the Pheidole megacephala don't really have a strong presence in this area as far as I've seen. The area gets pretty dry, and while in Winter/Spring they had a much bigger presence. Once Summer hit, I didn't see many Pheidole megacephala. They could have moved underground though or into the walls of the garages.

 

Which brings me to the next thing. Last Winter there was a LOT less Pheidole megacephala due to my interference. However they were very still active and despite only having a few colonies left (after me killing a bunch a couple years ago, plus people did put out ant baits so I guess they went into peoples apartments), they were far more active than they were in the Summer. The only areas they currently are most active in is areas are either areas that get enough hydration, or in more shaded areas that don't dry out as fast. It will be interesting to see what they do in the first rainstorms, because despite having only very few colonies, they were surprisingly active during the wet season. Which is different than the Argentine ants, who mostly disappear during the Winter months. The balance of power may change a lot, because unlike last year, there are a ton more Pheidole megacephala. If last year was anything to go by, the Ph. megacephala might expand a ton once Winter hits and into Spring.

Edited by Vendayn, September 19 2018 - 2:13 PM.

[Vendayn]

Be prepared for the worst paint image you will ever see! I'm sure even 1st graders can do better. But oh well lol. This is better than descriptions. Keep in mind, most of this is disconnected and is obviously in no way or shape an accurate rendition of the layout or actual sizes of anything. Though I did try to replicate how the buildings are shaped and some of the plant areas. And I did properly put the text in correct spot where species or battles are. Also, yes there are no Pheidole between the two buildings on the top left (going from south to north, not the part going west to east). There used to be a huge expansion of Pheidole there, but they heavily clean that area with soapy water so they died there. No ant survives that particular spot. Not even Brachymyrmex. 

 

 

No idea how it looks on a phone, but its easy to zoom in on the PC

 

The black lines simulate roads. Red apartment buildings. The cyan on top left is the pond. Down on the bottom right with dark blue is the pool. Green is the plant areas. The grey lines are sidewalks or open concrete areas. The yellow lines are garages, and each garage has a little plant area between them. And I did short purple lines to simulate the concrete paths that connect areas that the Pheidole use to cross the roads. The bottom is the river area. The #s are the the areas I describe above and Ph is obviously Pheidole. And BG stands for battlegrounds. 

 

Partly designed the map in a way I can easily update it lol. 

Edited by Vendayn, September 19 2018 - 8:17 PM.

[DaveJay]

That was an excellent read! Like Command and Conquer with ants!
Just a thought, you could use a screenshot of a Google Earth map or satellite image (if it doesn't give away your location too much) and update it using paint to indicate territories and battlefields.

[Vendayn]

That was an excellent read! Like Command and Conquer with ants!
Just a thought, you could use a screenshot of a Google Earth map or satellite image (if it doesn't give away your location too much) and update it using paint to indicate territories and battlefields.

It give away my location too easily. And I don't want people to come by and get them and spread invasive ants around. That was why I made the paint image instead of just going through an actual map.

[DaveJay]

 

That was an excellent read! Like Command and Conquer with ants!
Just a thought, you could use a screenshot of a Google Earth map or satellite image (if it doesn't give away your location too much) and update it using paint to indicate territories and battlefields.

It give away my location too easily. And I don't want people to come by and get them and spread invasive ants around. That was why I made the paint image instead of just going through an actual map.

 

No worries, that's just being sensible, it would have looked cool though!

[CamponotusLover]

Awesome!! You have inspired me and now I wanna do something like this but I am lazy as hell.

[Vendayn]

Awesome!! You have inspired me and now I wanna do something like this but I am lazy as hell.

To be honest...I'm super lazy too. Except, I'm hyped up on coffee cause staying up all night (no way am I waking up on my own at 6:30 to 7:00 in the morning). So, I figured might as well use the caffeine energy for something productive Didn't turn out so bad, but it did take like an hour to do since I never really used paint before. And I did want to get the overall look of it down.

 

As for the map. I'm going to remove the "BG" and replace it with "F" for fronts. That way one less letter to show on the map instead of BG each battle area. And some other changes/fixes. But that will be whenever I update the map again. I'm aiming once a month at current ant activity. Unless in the Winter nothing happens and they disappear mostly (though that wasn't the case last year with the Pheidole, and they had a lot less last year too).

[Trythis22]

Vendayn,

 

If you plan on doing this for as long as you said you will, may I offer a suggestion that will save you time on having to recreate your maps every time? This method will also allow you to have the same outline over and over again so you can display your data easier. It just seems like a smarter way to me, but feel free to do as you wish. You can blur out the numbers if you think anybody's going to hunt you down to say hello from a tax lot number. There is no other identifying information shown other than the fact that this property is located in Orange County, which you have already included as information in your profile. 

 

Every County has a different tool for looking up tax lot numbers, Orange County has a rather basic mapping system for the general public but it works. Simply convert to jpeg and add your colors on top of the map. It will look more professional, and more importantly, convey your data better to your audience here on Formiculture. 

 

Search from info: http://propertydata....x?advanced=true

Search from municipality: http://propertydata....om/taxmaps.aspx

Sample: http://propertydata....2600/009000.pdf

 

Not much to say as of now, but this has the potential to become interesting. 

 

EDIT: I got the Orange County in New York in the above information. Orange County in California is https://www.ocgis.co...pw/landrecords/

 

My bad. I really prefer the former method since it's much cleaner and more organized but if you want to get an accurate map of your area you have to use the tools provided by your County. 

Edited by Trythis22, September 19 2018 - 11:10 PM.

[Vendayn]

Vendayn,

 

If you plan on doing this for as long as you said you will, may I offer a suggestion that will save you time on having to recreate your maps every time? This method will also allow you to have the same outline over and over again so you can display your data easier. It just seems like a smarter way to me, but feel free to do as you wish. You can blur out the numbers if you think anybody's going to hunt you down to say hello from a tax lot number. There is no other identifying information shown other than the fact that this property is located in Orange County, which you have already included as information in your profile. 

 

Every County has a different tool for looking up tax lot numbers, Orange County has a rather basic mapping system for the general public but it works. Simply convert to jpeg and add your colors on top of the map. It will look more professional, and more importantly, convey your data better to your audience here on Formiculture. 

 

Search from info: http://propertydata....x?advanced=true

Search from municipality: http://propertydata....om/taxmaps.aspx

Sample: http://propertydata....2600/009000.pdf

 

Not much to say as of now, but this has the potential to become interesting. 

 

EDIT: I got the Orange County in New York in the above information. Orange County in California is https://www.ocgis.co...pw/landrecords/

 

My bad. I really prefer the former method since it's much cleaner and more organized but if you want to get an accurate map of your area you have to use the tools provided by your County. 

Well, first. Maybe its cause I just woke up and not using that right, but it looks pretty inaccurate for an apartment complex. It doesn't show any of the details for my complex that even google map shows, but maybe I'm just being dumb. Though I clicked all around and it doesn't have street view either (though I've used google maps itself for street view and it looks like it uses google maps for street view. And I can get it to work in the housing areas nearby, so I dunno. Is it just for houses?)

 

Second, I'm probably gonna keep the junk paint map for now. If I stay here next year and I know we don't move, I'll do a better map. I don't want to stick with a low quality map forever. Plus, I'll need a much more accurate map once they expand into the major conflict areas (pool or/and the pond). And will probably need multiple maps, one focused on each major area. Though if I get your way to work, or if others recommend something else I'll take in everyone's idea and choose what works best for me. Maybe I'll just use a super zoomed in google maps itself, dunno. That or I move and it won't matter.

Edited by Vendayn, September 20 2018 - 5:09 AM.

[Vendayn]

Early morning report. I very rarely get up this early. In fact, its been years. Good time to see what it looks like after the ants have been battling all night.

 

Western poolside is definitely an active front. However, not really very many Argentine ants and the Pheidole megacephala easily have an advantage here at current Argentine ant numbers. The Argentine ants seem to be trying to take the tree they lost, but guess don't have very many ants nearby to reinforce their front.

 

Northwest Grassy Border here are quite a lot of Argentine ants. There is a thick trail of ants going to their nest they setup right near the Pheidole megacephala colony boundary. There appears to be not much actual direct attacking, and neither ant is really attacking each other in any large numbers. Which is interesting.

 

Northeast Grassy Border is secured now by Pheidole megacephala. Argentine ants pretty much gave up, a mere tiny fraction of the numbers they initially were sending against the Ph. megacephala. 

 

Most interesting is the Western Garages front. Where did all the ants go? Is what I asked. The only ants I see are Pheidole megacephala, but not nearly as many as I saw last night. And no one sprayed poison, and no dead ants. A little further away from the front there are a bunch of Pheidole megacephala. I'm guessing this particular side of the area sees the most activity at night for some reason and as it gets closer to morning they disappear. I saw that in Winter/Spring when the Pheidole megacephala were most active in this area. I'm going to guess because the area gets irrigated at 12:00, this is why there is the most activity since it otherwise dries up rather quick. And in the Winter/Spring there is a lot of water from the rainstorms. Either way, Argentine ant colony look to be gone, so maybe it got defeated. I dug around the bush a tiny bit and no Argentine ants where they were nesting and nothing there. I'll have to look tonight and see what it looks like. 

Edited by Vendayn, September 20 2018 - 6:51 AM.

[Vendayn]

Well, now I know what happened at Western Garages. The Pheidole megacephala took over the Argentine ant nest and moved a bunch of ants in. Not anymore Argentine ants around, except the occasional straggler. It appears the amount of Pheidole in this area is far greater than what it actually appears to be. I'm guessing this area they are 95% subterranean compared to the Grassy Border areas, and maybe making more of their colonies inside the walls of the garages. Its a lot drier in the garage area, so probably explains why they don't come to the surface as much.

 

All other fronts have no significant updates.

[Vendayn]

Interesting to note...

 

Pheidole megacephala seem to dig UNDER the battlefields between both them and the Argentine ants. I noticed as Ph. megacephala slowly push the Argentine ants back, they are also digging under them at the same time and setting up "strongholds". I did look last night at western poolside and noticed they had a bunch of new nests dug where the main battles take place. I've seen this before but forgot to bring it up. It is quite a battle tactic.

 

Kind of like the old battle tactic of digging under walls to collapse them. But, in this case not only are they able to get under the battle area, but able to start new nests this way as well.

[Vendayn]

I'm going to use google maps instead. But, when I update/upgrade the map will depend on how much the Ph. megacephala expand after it rains. Since its a tropical storm, and its going to be warm and humid...I'm imagining they are gonna expand a ton. Last year they expanded a lot in a cold winter storm, so this should be even more with how many ants there are.

 

An interesting observation I had last night though. Some of the Pheidole megacephala soldiers are actually bigger. I saw one soldier that was much bigger than I've seen in the past with this species. I wish I got her as a sample or a picture but she disappeared and I couldn't find her again. I've seen soldiers before lots of times, but never one her size. She was about three times bigger than the workers, when usually they are only about twice as big.

[Vendayn]

So, I remembered reading why the soldiers get bigger. I don't know how accurate it is, but seen this on other sites too.

 

https://news.illinoi...iew/6367/204507

 

It looks like Pheidole megacephala get larger soldiers (and workers? I didn't notice if any of the workers were bigger than usual) when faced with competitors that are equally able to fight back.

[Vendayn]

So I checked on them since it rained not too long ago.

 

And...

 

I need to completely re-do the map and rename each area more fitting.

 

To sum it up

 

Every battle won. Some skirmishes still in some areas, but Pheidole megacephala are winning each of them and they have lost 0% of the battles.

 

Massive expansion in each area, and three areas are now almost connected with each other to make one continuous colony. There IS already a semi-continuous colony, but its blocked by the road. Once the three areas connect up though, it'll be one massive colony that all connects up to each other. Some of these also loop back around the buildings and connect back up to other parts of the colony, but otherwise they are sorta connected. But like in area #6 they are almost going around the garages and connect up to the grassy area. Speaking of which, area #6 is now crossing the road and going to the plant area that I drew there. And from there it isn't far from the pond.

 

The Pheidole megacephala expanded like crazy since the recent rains. Expanded so much I don't even know where to start, but almost double the amount of territory they already had. Another big thing is they expanded closer to the pond area, that is a big thing, but not there yet. They expanded a lot more than I thought they would. Its crazy how much they expanded in such a short time.

 

Also, now they have no battlegrounds/fronts at the moment...just skirmishes (tiny battles pretty much) with Pheidole megacephala having the upper hand in each skirmish by a long shot. If they reach the pool or the pond or both, or expand to the "wall" (the apartments have a Trump wall blocking the main road+freeway from view on one side of the complex) then there'll be actual battlegrounds again. The wall is actually the top part of the drawing I drew of the map, with that long green belt. But as of now, they won every major battle that started toward the end of Summer.

Edited by Vendayn, October 16 2018 - 10:17 PM.

[Vendayn]

Looks like the Pheidole megacephala lost their first battle. This is the area I knew if they tried going there, that they'd almost certainly see defeat. I'll see later tonight, but going by my map...its the green area across the road from BG #6. 

 

I'm pretty sure Pheidole megacephala will fail to colonize this area until next year, and when they do try massively expanding here they are going to see a massive Argentine ant defense, as the Argentine ants can easily get reinforcements from the pond area. On the other hand...Argentine ants will be unable to be able to take back area #1 as the Pheidole have too many numbers in this area and many large colonies already. The Argentine ants might try attacking, but they won't win. Likewise, Pheidole megacephala can't win (this year at least) by attacking either. So out of all battlegrounds, this is a true 100% stalemate.

 

As for the other areas. The Pheidole megacephala have expanded a bit in other areas but not much. However they are getting strong solid colonies in the areas they've taken or expanded to. All colonies have grown quite a lot in numbers. So I imagine there must be a lot of queens.

[YsTheAnt]

If I lived in a place that had all these invasives I would go out on summer nights and exterminate all these nests one by one . Gotta give the natives a chance!

Great journal, I like the map. Maybe post pics or videos of a battle?

[Vendayn]

If I lived in a place that had all these invasives I would go out on summer nights and exterminate all these nests one by one . Gotta give the natives a chance!

Great journal, I like the map. Maybe post pics or videos of a battle?

There is no native ants around here.

 

Pheidole flavens

Pheidole megacephala

Argentine ants

Brachymyrmex patagonicus

 

And that is literally it.

 

There used to be Pogonomyrmex californicus 5 minute walk away, but they built over them with an apartment complex and they died.

 

No point in killing anything when its just invasives all around as far as I can walk to. And personally even if some ants might be worse (like Solenopsis invicta), I kinda would rather have any other ant than Argentine ants anyway lol

 

I did kill a bunch of Pheidole megacephala colonies a couple years ago though. But they kept reappearing and I got complained at cause people saw me at like 1 am with "suspicious liquid" I had in bottles that was just soapy water. No matter how late it is, there is always multiple people active at night. I've gone out at 3 am and there was quite a few people roaming around lol. So with all that, I gave up killing them. Plus when I read California gave up fighting Argentine ants, I figured that is when I should give up killing ants and just let nature do its thing. I don't see a point killing ants when the government doesn't care about getting rid of Argentine ants. 

Edited by Vendayn, October 23 2018 - 3:06 PM.