6 replies to this topic

[Boshka]

For those who make grout, hyrdostone or ytong formicariums what do you use to seal the bottom and sides to help limit evaporation? I would just use a rubber sealant or something like Rust-Oleum never wet sealant. However, I am concerned that the chemicals would leech through the wet portion of the formicariums exterior and into the nesting area.

[KBant]

Not sure what you mean by seal the bottom but I’ve used a glue gun in my build.

[Boshka]

I did a test with a 2in thick block of grout and in it I inserted a small piece of wicking material. I then placed it upside down in a source of water and found it pulled the  water up and into the grout rather easily and the grout became damp to touch. I obviously would like this to be the case in the nesting area, but do not wish for the exterior to become damn as well. I figure that will just increase the evaporation of the water source and also make the table it will be on damp as well.

So i am thinking I would need to seal the exterior of the grout to prevent this and would like to know if others have similar issues and if so what is used to seal the exterior.

[Trythis22]

The purpose of any sealant is to form a waterproof barrier, and stay there for 5-15 years depending on the product, manufacturer's specifications and type of application. Let's take for instance asphalt sealant - this prevents water from leaking into the main body of asphalt and compromising the integrity of the bonding between the aggregate and cement. The major issue is not one or two rainstorms - it is the constant wear and tear of traffic and water exposure over the course of many years that warrant the use of a sealant to increase the longevity of the road. 

 

Now your concern of "leeching chemicals" has two points. One is that the sealant will penetrate your grout and cause problems for ants: There needs to be some kind of bonding between the sealant and grout so yes, it's going to penetrate a bit to allow for a strong mechanical bond because that's what it is designed to do. However, once it cures/hardens it will absolutely stop moving around and it will definitely not infiltrate the grout like Venom from Spider Man. This is no problem for your ants because there is no way the sealant is going to penetrate all the way to the nesting area. Something like deep penetrating epoxy resin will, but not a sealant that is designed to seal only the exterior of a surface. 

 

The next point is that some of these products have low amounts of VOCs in them - volatile organic compounds. Don't apply these products when your ants will be exposed to the fumes. Give adequate time for the product to cure and store in a well ventilated area that's not too cold. A lot of mythology and pop culture surround the topic of VOCs - many people just don't believe that a toxic product can transform into something non-toxic. It can and it will. It'll be safe once cured. 

 

Given what you've told us about your formicarium, I'm going to have to assume a couple things about it and the Rustoleum Neverwet sealant seems like the wrong choice of product for this application. I can elaborate on this if you want. Why don't you just glue something like glass to the bottom and sides of your nest? Or better yet, create a box you can slip the grout mould in and out of. You already have something similar glued to the top of the nest, right? You have plenty of options and it seems like you haven't poured the main piece of your nest yet. Get a tupperware container and pour your grout in that, then glue a glass or acrylic sheet on top. Glass cutters are $2 and easy to use. Easy waterproofing.

 

If you don't want to bother with any of that, use regular sealants or putty. Cheaper than the Neverwet and does the same thing. You're not looking for a hydrophobic barrier, you're looking for a sealant. 

 

From what I've seen on the forums, most people do not have a standalone grout nest. They combine it with things like an acrylic box, sanded grout on the bottom, a wooden frame(??), etc. Easiest/cheapest way is to go to a dollar store, Daiso, GoodWill or other cheap places to buy containers and to pour your grout in that. Or use something from your house. If you want it to look nice, anything is possible, but you gotta open your wallet a bit for those luxuries. 

[Boshka]

The purpose of any sealant is to form a waterproof barrier, and stay there for 5-15 years depending on the product, manufacturer's specifications and type of application. Let's take for instance asphalt sealant - this prevents water from leaking into the main body of asphalt and compromising the integrity of the bonding between the aggregate and cement. The major issue is not one or two rainstorms - it is the constant wear and tear of traffic and water exposure over the course of many years that warrant the use of a sealant to increase the longevity of the road. 

 

Now your concern of "leeching chemicals" has two points. One is that the sealant will penetrate your grout and cause problems for ants: There needs to be some kind of bonding between the sealant and grout so yes, it's going to penetrate a bit to allow for a strong mechanical bond because that's what it is designed to do. However, once it cures/hardens it will absolutely stop moving around and it will definitely not infiltrate the grout like Venom from Spider Man. This is no problem for your ants because there is no way the sealant is going to penetrate all the way to the nesting area. Something like deep penetrating epoxy resin will, but not a sealant that is designed to seal only the exterior of a surface. 

 

The next point is that some of these products have low amounts of VOCs in them - volatile organic compounds. Don't apply these products when your ants will be exposed to the fumes. Give adequate time for the product to cure and store in a well ventilated area that's not too cold. A lot of mythology and pop culture surround the topic of VOCs - many people just don't believe that a toxic product can transform into something non-toxic. It can and it will. It'll be safe once cured. 

 

Given what you've told us about your formicarium, I'm going to have to assume a couple things about it and the Rustoleum Neverwet sealant seems like the wrong choice of product for this application. I can elaborate on this if you want. Why don't you just glue something like glass to the bottom and sides of your nest? Or better yet, create a box you can slip the grout mould in and out of. You already have something similar glued to the top of the nest, right? You have plenty of options and it seems like you haven't poured the main piece of your nest yet. Get a tupperware container and pour your grout in that, then glue a glass or acrylic sheet on top. Glass cutters are $2 and easy to use. Easy waterproofing.

 

If you don't want to bother with any of that, use regular sealants or putty. Cheaper than the Neverwet and does the same thing. You're not looking for a hydrophobic barrier, you're looking for a sealant. 

 

From what I've seen on the forums, most people do not have a standalone grout nest. They combine it with things like an acrylic box, sanded grout on the bottom, a wooden frame(??), etc. Easiest/cheapest way is to go to a dollar store, Daiso, GoodWill or other cheap places to buy containers and to pour your grout in that. Or use something from your house. If you want it to look nice, anything is possible, but you gotta open your wallet a bit for those luxuries. 

 

I appreciate the reply and suggestions. 

 

The mold I'm using to cast the formicarium is actually a unfinished wood shadow box I found at a craft store cheap $4. I was considering buying another one and once I have pulled the mold from the first shadow box to place it in the new one nest side up and cover with some glass or acrylic. As the shadow box is unfinished this would allow me to seal the interior and stain the outside and let it dry prior to putting the formicarium into it as to allow for it to off-gas. This way I would not have to worry about any sealant being applied directly on the grout and leeching into at all as it drys limiting even more any contact with the interior of the nest and ants. 

 

I had also considered some of your other suggestions as making a glass or acrylic frame for it as well. I was thinking though if I liked the appearance of the grout itself I might want to leave it exposed and not hidden in a frame of some sort. So I was looking for options for sealing it directly and was going to start researching non-toxic sealant options to be safe. 

[Trythis22]

Oh! You should have included that info with your first post. Sounds like a perfect plan to me, applying the sealant on the box itself and staining the walls. You can remove all the pieces when you go back to clean it as well. If you have access to wood stain I suspect you also have access to more materials and tools that would help the durability and aesthetic look of the formicarium. You don't need my help! 

 

Certain mixes of grout look nice. After all, they're used for the spaces between tiles in bathrooms. The only concern would be that it is tricky to repair if a corner chips - Allow 28 days for full cure. I see what you are trying to do now. I would personally go with the box as it would give the formicarium a more solid and steady look. Go to a glass shop to have them cut out the perfect shape for your cover, then hot glue or silicone it on. Silicone is much cleaner and stronger. If you're using wood stain, don't ruin the look with hot glue. I would do 2 or 3 coats depending on the brand if you decide to do it. If you want to do premium, buy some glass bolts, drill some holes in the box, use a diamond/silicone carbide tipped hole saw to drill holes in the glass, install bolts. I used a regular power drill for mine, no need to buy a drill press. You can rent a power drill for cheap if you're in the US and don't own one. It'll be a functional and nice looking formicarium. 

 

Most sealants are non-toxic after they cure and are used within the parameters of their designed purpose. I don't think I can be much clearer than that... I think you're on the right path though. I say go with the box. 

[DaveJay]

A clear pond sealer is the most obvious choice to me, guaranteed not to leach toxic chemicals in wet conditions. As said above though, once fully cured most waterproof coatings should be safe. If you plan to coat the inside of a box rather than the grout any outdoor gloss paint should be fine, maybe there's some laying around in a shed you can use without spending a cent.