108 replies to this topic

[Mdrogun]

I honestly have never seen T. immigrans displace any native species. In my friend's yard, a colony exists within a few feet of a Formica cf. subaenescens colony, and both are thriving. Workers from the Formica colony even often walk right over the Tetramorium mounds, and neither give each other a second thought.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the Tetramorium immigrans were to displace a colony, the chances of you seeing it would be very low, thus it appears they don't displace any colonies. Since the only colonies you see are the ones they're not going to displace.

[ForestDragon]

 

Tetramorium are not truly invasives but they are able to fill certain niches that other ants can't occupy due to human activity

This is an idea spread by Antscanada that holds no actual ground. I know he often cites how they've been here for such a long time, they've become naturalized. This is absolutely not the case. When you go outside and the most common species seen is one not native to the entire continent, it's invasive. Think about the millions, if not billions, of native colonies they've prevented from existing. This is absolutely invasive behavior.

 

I didn't get this from Antscanada (i don't like him much) but they are native to North America but are very efficient species and have evolved/ adapted to the environment they were given to be able to thrive. Tetramorium immigrans are a US native and i have seen them in most areas of the US but you were kind of confusing on the "when you go outside and the most common species seen is one not native to the entire continent, it's invasive" is a confusing statement and i dissagree with the "naturalization" stuff AC tells of

Edited by ForestDragon, August 9 2019 - 12:42 PM.

[PacificNorthWestern]

 

 

Tetramorium are not truly invasives but they are able to fill certain niches that other ants can't occupy due to human activity

This is an idea spread by Antscanada that holds no actual ground. I know he often cites how they've been here for such a long time, they've become naturalized. This is absolutely not the case. When you go outside and the most common species seen is one not native to the entire continent, it's invasive. Think about the millions, if not billions, of native colonies they've prevented from existing. This is absolutely invasive behavior.

 

I didn't get this from Antscanada (i don't like him much) but they are native to North America but are very efficient species and have evolved/ adapted to the environment they were given to be able to thrive. Tetramorium immigrans are a US native and i have seen them in most areas of the US

 

Tetramorium are not native to the US, they are invasive, just because you see them in the US doesn't make them native. 

[ForestDragon]

 

 

 

Tetramorium are not truly invasives but they are able to fill certain niches that other ants can't occupy due to human activity

This is an idea spread by Antscanada that holds no actual ground. I know he often cites how they've been here for such a long time, they've become naturalized. This is absolutely not the case. When you go outside and the most common species seen is one not native to the entire continent, it's invasive. Think about the millions, if not billions, of native colonies they've prevented from existing. This is absolutely invasive behavior.

 

I didn't get this from Antscanada (i don't like him much) but they are native to North America but are very efficient species and have evolved/ adapted to the environment they were given to be able to thrive. Tetramorium immigrans are a US native and i have seen them in most areas of the US

 

Tetramorium are not native to the US, they are invasive, just because you see them in the US doesn't make them native. 

 

As I recalled the Tetramorium in the US were described as a different species than Caespitm as Tetramorium immigrans and were only found in the us I believed that they were a us only but Caespitm was found in europe I have not been very active for the last year so things could have changed 

Edited by ForestDragon, August 9 2019 - 12:56 PM.

[PacificNorthWestern]

Tetramorium Immigrans is not native to the United States of America, they came from Europe. I don't think anything has changed in the past year, but you did get misinformed. My sources are antmaps and antwiki which both label Tetramorium Immigrans as exotic to the United States which means not native but has established colonies in the wild.

Edited by PacificNorthWestern, August 9 2019 - 1:58 PM.

[rbarreto]

First of all try to avoid having discussions in other people's journals. Then there's the fact that I'm not sure you've done much research. Tetramorium immigrans has been here for over 200 years, and is well established. Meaning it is only present and native to North America. Is T. immigrans extremely dominant in urban environments? Yes, but just like many other species they've carved out a role and sticks to it.

Btw this is one of my favorite journals on FC. Keep up the good work Anthony.

 

EDIT: Some more reading made me somewhat change my mind. They are still spreading in some areas but for the most part are established.

Edited by rbarreto, August 9 2019 - 6:11 PM.

[PacificNorthWestern]

First of all try to avoid having discussions in other people's journals. Then there's the fact that I'm not sure you've done much research. Tetramorium immigrans has been here for over 200 years, is well established, and is genetically distinct from its European counterparts. Meaning it is only present and native to North America. Is T. immigrans extremely dominant in urban environments? Yes, but just like many other species they've carved out a role and sticks to it.

Btw this is one of my favorite journals on FC. Keep up the good work Anthony.

They have a great foothold in current day America over the past 200 years they have "evolved"/"adapted, but they DID come from Europe, are harmful to the environment, displace natives, and spread like crazy( at least where I live). they have craved out a role which benefits nobody and are still carving away. here's what I have a hard time understanding about your statement... when tetramorium came to America we considered them not native, right? So in those 200 years they have adapted and now we consider them native. My question is what has happened to make them now "native"?

Edited by PacificNorthWestern, August 9 2019 - 2:57 PM.

[PacificNorthWestern]

I enjoy this journal too, just trying to help people understand something and clear some things up for myself too.

[AnthonyP163]

The discussion is okay. 

 

8/9/19

 

Today, I was able to observe a failed or halted Polyergus breviceps raid. 

 

I have a short video showing footage from the beginning to the end. At first, I went to check on the Formica montana mound and noticed there were dozens of workers at the entrance, which looked aggressive and urgent. I noticed a couple of Polyergus breviceps workers exiting under the fence on the other side of the yard. Suddenly, I could see multiple Polyergus workers gathering in a small area. I peeked through the cracks in the fence and saw a huge column of the raiders headed right for this gathering area. They bumbled about (hundreds of them) and after a few minutes started making a line of ants toward the Formica montana mound. 

 

I figured I'd get the first few moments of the raid, so I carefully avoided the Polyergus and the direction that they seemed to be going in and made my way to the mound. After 15 minutes, no raiders showed up. I went to the column and found out they had gone about 2 meters out and then simply stopped, with just a few workers (scouts, most likely) going forward. It seemed they gathered by one area in particular and seemed to be aggravated. There were Tetramorium by where they entered the yard but I don't think there were enough to impact the raid and the Polyergus are used to fighting other ants. Within a minute or two after that, the entire raiding column seemed to just turn around and leave. Hundreds of workers went back to the area they had gathered at first, and, within 5 minutes, they were all gone and it looked as if nothing had happened. 

 

I had previously noticed groups of Formica montana headed in the direction of the Polyergus column, so it's possible they were distracted with workers. I'm unsure, right now, exactly why they stopped. They seemed to have more than enough workers to get in, although the activity at the mound surface could've warded off the raid. This raid is about a month later than the raid was on a different colony last year.

 

Here's a short video of different clips, most of the video is the giant column going back under the fence and leaving. There were tons of them. The beginning is how active the mound was.

 

 

The relationship between Polyergus breviceps and Formica montana certainly brings out interesting behaviors in both species. I'm excited that the Polyergus will still raid here,

Edited by AnthonyP163, August 9 2019 - 8:37 PM.

[ANTdrew]

What a cool phenomenon to observe!
Which seeds have you planted and which are you saving? Did the seed packs indicate their germination requirements?

Edited by ANTdrew, August 10 2019 - 6:54 AM.

[AnthonyP163]

What a cool phenomenon to observe!
Which seeds have you planted and which are you saving? Did the seed packs indicate their germination requirements?

I planted Partridge Peas, Canada Goldenrod, and Early Goldenrod. The goldenrod seem to take a while, so I doubt they'll grow and the Tetramorium might get the seeds. 

 

I saved most of the seeds for spring or to plant in November. 

[ANTdrew]

Sorry to be annoying, but I want you to be successful in this. Plus I’m living vicariously through your garden because mine is soon to be destroyed by house flippers.
I would strongly advise planting all your seeds in pots covered with shade cloth or some kind of netting to keep out rodents. Starting in pots will really help you control the variables and improve your odds of success.
Goldenrod will need a couple of months in cold moist conditions before germinating. It will probably need another year after that before flowering. Patience is key, but when you start a plant from seed it becomes like an old friend to you.

Edited by ANTdrew, August 10 2019 - 5:45 PM.

[AnthonyP163]

Sorry to be annoying, but I want you to be successful in this. Plus I’m living vicariously through your garden because mine is soon to be destroyed by house flippers.
I would strongly advise planting all your seeds in pots covered with shade cloth or some kind of netting to keep out rodents. Starting in pots will really help you control the variables and improve your odds of success.
Goldenrod will need a couple of months in cold moist conditions before germinating. It will probably need another year after that before flowering. Patience is key, but when you start a plant from seed it becomes like an old friend to you.

Not annoying at all. 

 

I'll try to do this or something like this, I remember seeing very cool red aphids on goldenrod at a prairie preserve, so I'm really hoping to grow some of them. Thanks for the knowledge and help. 

[ANTdrew]

I would feel no qualms about digging up a few pieces of goldenrod you find about to kick start your project. Just leave most of the parent plant, and it’s really copy and paste with rhizomatous plants like this.
I had a monarch on one of my favorite from seed goldenrods today.

Edited by ANTdrew, August 11 2019 - 5:41 PM.

[AnthonyP163]

9/8/19

 

In the past month, the pond has pretty much been freed of the sow-thistles. They likely all died because of the thousands of aphids. As summer ends, it gets colder and the Lasius haven't had any days with the right conditions to fly just yet. I'm hoping they'll fly either this Tuesday or the following week. Today was really cold, and the Formica montana were inactive. 

 

When I believe it to be the day Lasius will fly, I will make sure to clear out spots with soil, and make the soil damp if it is not already so. I'll also make an attempt at killing some of the Tetramorium that day, using boiling water. This would be making it harder for the Lasius queens to be found by any foraging Tetramorium workers while they excavate a founding chamber.

 

Lots of the goldenrod in the forest near me are blooming, and some have green and red aphids. I've planted some goldenrod in small pots, and when I can, I will gather some seeds from the forest. I'll plant some more seeds soon so that they go through winter outside and hopefully sprout next spring. In the spring I will get rid of most of the sow-thistles when they are still small. 

 

Monch

 

Here's the fleabane plant with dozens of aphids on it

 

Some of the milkweed are taller than me and almost all have seeds. 

 

The pots which have some goldenrod seeds in them.

 

Here's the pond today

 

Here's the garden. The Tetramorium have stopped bringing their brood to the surface lately.

 

Here's the base of the tree which the Lasius often forage on

Erechtites at the base of the tree

 

dozens of isopods under rocks and mats at the pond

[ANTdrew]

Looks great! I haven’t got any monarch caterpillars this year, but plenty of adults.
Do you have any mesh or shade cloth to protect your pots from rodents?

[AnthonyP163]

Looks great! I haven’t got any monarch caterpillars this year, but plenty of adults.
Do you have any mesh or shade cloth to protect your pots from rodents?

I might be able to get some. I will look. I am not too worried, I've found some snake skin nearby and seen a garter snake. I also have houses on pretty much all sides of the yard, so there aren't too many rodents.

[AnthonyP163]

11/10/19

 

Over the last couple months, it's gotten colder and the plants have all withered. All the colonies are now hibernating. I planted goldenrod around the pond, but this journal might have to come to a close as there is a chance I will need to move to a different property in January. If this is, unfortunately, the case, I will try to continue it at this new property if there are Tetramorium in the yard.

[ANTdrew]

Update?

[TheMicroPlanet]

There are two huge Tetramorium colonies that go to war every year in my backyard. A particularly large portion of them end up drowning in the Sea of Eternal Doom (aka my pool).