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Did some Small colony scoops


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46 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 23 2016 - 5:16 PM

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Not sure on what species these are, or if i managed to get queens. Was doing some land scaping around the house and kept coming across small colonies under rocks. So, i armed myself with some Panera cups and quickly scooped the areas after i lifted the rocks in hopes to catch the queens before they could evacuate. Would it hurt the mix the two cups of the same species together?

 

Anyway, here are some videos. The black colony has one ant that has a slightly gorged abdomen.

Screen shot of my suspected queen.

https://goo.gl/photo...2nVTzTRreZJV5V9

 

And two different scoops of what i believe is the same species. Would it be safe to combine these two cups?

 

cup 2

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 


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#2 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 23 2016 - 5:39 PM

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First one is some kind of myrmicine, and the second looks like Lasius.



#3 Offline Mads - Posted April 23 2016 - 5:45 PM

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I second what Drew said, I didn`t see a queen any either, for sure not the Lasius. The myrmicine can be a bit more difficult, many queens are only slightly larger than the workers, at least the ones we have up here, not sure about the species you have locally.

 

Mads



#4 Offline AntsTexas - Posted April 23 2016 - 5:56 PM

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those orange ants look cool


Ant Queens found:

 

Solenopsis Invicta,  Solenopsis xyloni,  Brachymyrmex depilis/Sp,  Myrmecocystus Mimicus,  Pogonomyrmex barbatus,

Forelius pruinosus,  Camponotus sayi, Dorymyrmex insanus, crematogaster ashmeadi,

 

----------------------------------------

Ant Queens i have going right now:

 

camponotus sayi, solenopsis invicta, Myrmecocystus Mimicus, Forelius pruinosus

Pogonomyrmex barbatus, and some others (no i.d.)

---------------------------------------

YouTube:  AntsTexas

 

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/cdockray1

 

Facebook page:  AntsTexas


#5 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 23 2016 - 5:59 PM

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I guess it's time to start researching. Should i put some kind of nest in there to see if they move the brood and perhaps a queen will identify herself?



#6 Offline Crystals - Posted April 23 2016 - 6:39 PM

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You can try that if you want.

 

For the yellow Lasius, the queen is almost always brown or a brown with some yellow and much larger than the workers - often 3-4 times their size.  I rarely see Lasius queens inside of an established colony, they usually dig deep and never come back up.

 

For the top cup, I don't see which ant you are looking at in the photo.  If it is Myrmica, get a good side view - the queens thorax is quite bulky and noticeably different from the workers.  Most other myrmicine species have queens that are much larger than the workers.

These do not strike me as Myrmica though, the head seems too different.

 

Depending on the time of day these were collected (and time of year & species), depends how likely it is for the queen to be just beneath the rock.  Before noon the queen is up higher trying to warm up, sometimes just beneath a rock.  Once warmed up, she retreats deeper into the colony.


"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astound the rest." -- Samuel Clemens

 

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My Colonies


#7 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 23 2016 - 6:48 PM

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Ok, so the Yellow Lasius colonies that are all around my house are more then likely one large colony with a single queen?

 

And with the black ants, I'm talking about the one with the weird abdomen just above the play button.

 

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#8 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 23 2016 - 7:21 PM

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Most other myrmicine species have queens that are much larger than the workers.

 

I assume you are talking about the Mymicinae up North where you and Loops117 are located. Down here, I would agree with Mads. I would say most Myrmicinae have queens that aren't a whole lot bigger than the largest workers.



#9 Offline Mads - Posted April 23 2016 - 7:26 PM

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Most other myrmicine species have queens that are much larger than the workers.

 

I assume you are talking about the Mymicinae up North where you and Loops117 are located. Down here, I would agree with Mads. I would say most Myrmicinae have queens that aren't a whole lot bigger than the largest workers.

 

Uhmm, I am located closer to Crystal than just about anyone else on this forum Drew.....Hahaha! Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying Drew, if so, I apologize.

 

Mads



#10 Offline Mdrogun - Posted April 23 2016 - 7:27 PM

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Am I crazy, or is the 1st cup clearly Tetramorium?

I am positive that you didn't collect the queen for the colony in the first cup. You can see in this video that Tetramorium queens are reasonably larger than the workers

 

 As for the second and third cup it might be Lasius claviger, Lasius Umbratus or possibly Lasius flavus.


Edited by Mdrogun, April 23 2016 - 7:28 PM.

  • Jonathan21700 likes this

Currently Keeping:
Trachymyrmex septentrionalis

Pheidole pilifera

Forelius sp. (Monogynous, bicolored) "Midwestern Forelius"
Crematogaster cerasi

Pheidole bicarinata

Aphaenogaster rudis

Camponotus chromaiodes

Formica sp. (microgena species)

Nylanderia cf. arenivega


#11 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 23 2016 - 7:27 PM

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Most other myrmicine species have queens that are much larger than the workers.

 

I assume you are talking about the Mymicinae up North where you and Loops117 are located. Down here, I would agree with Mads. I would say most Myrmicinae have queens that aren't a whole lot bigger than the largest workers.

 

Uhmm, I am located closer to Crystal than just about anyone else on this forum Drew.....Hahaha! Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying Drew, if so, I apologize.

 

Mads

 

 

I knew you were from Canada; I was just agreeing with you. :P

 

Edit: Haha, I just noticed you said "at least the ones we have up here". Maybe you need to take that up with Crystal then. :lol:


Edited by dspdrew, April 23 2016 - 7:30 PM.


#12 Offline Mads - Posted April 23 2016 - 7:35 PM

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Most other myrmicine species have queens that are much larger than the workers.

 

I assume you are talking about the Mymicinae up North where you and Loops117 are located. Down here, I would agree with Mads. I would say most Myrmicinae have queens that aren't a whole lot bigger than the largest workers.

 

Uhmm, I am located closer to Crystal than just about anyone else on this forum Drew.....Hahaha! Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying Drew, if so, I apologize.

 

Mads

 

 

I knew you were from Canada; I was just agreeing with you. :P

 

Edit: Haha, I just noticed you said "at least the ones we have up here". Maybe you need to take that up with Crystal then. :lol:

 

Are you nuts? I am not going to argue with her, she is my go to person for ID`ing species for me!

 

In all seriousness though, most Myrmica species in my area you need to have a good look at to differentiate the queens from the workers, it`s pretty easy once you`ve done it a few times, but they don`t stick out like many other species.

 

Mads


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#13 Offline Crystals - Posted April 24 2016 - 6:21 AM

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Mads

 

I knew you were from Canada; I was just agreeing with you. :P

 

Edit: Haha, I just noticed you said "at least the ones we have up here". Maybe you need to take that up with Crystal then. :lol:

 

Are you nuts? I am not going to argue with her, she is my go to person for ID`ing species for me!

 

In all seriousness though, most Myrmica species in my area you need to have a good look at to differentiate the queens from the workers, it`s pretty easy once you`ve done it a few times, but they don`t stick out like many other species.

 

Mads

 

:lol:  I haven't laughed that hard in a long time...

 

When I said "Most other myrmicine species" I was referring to other double noded species up here like Aphaenogaster, Pogonomyrmex, Manica, etc (the last 2 obviously not a possibly for the above ID).  Perhaps I was using the wrong terms, causing un-necessary confusion.

They are also clearly not Leptothorax, Temnothorax, or Solenopsis that I would see in my location. (And that is about as Alberta has for double noded species)

 

For the Myrmica species itself, ID of exact species is a hassle requiring a microscope and some good side views and good detailed views of the face.  To determine a queen, the thorax is a dead giveaway once you know what you are looking for. This species does not look like any of the Myrmica I have seen up here though.

 

I was thinking along the same lines as Mdrogun, with an older Aphaenogaster colony - judging by the size of the heads and mandibles on the larger ants who look like large guards.  Then again, Michigan is much warmer than northern Alberta and they would have additional species of ants that simply do not occur up here - and I would likely be unaware of (and of no assistance with IDing).

 

Loops, that ant with the distended gaster is simply full of food.  She is not a queen, she lacks the larger thorax that a queen would have.  Look in any of my Camponotus journals for numerous examples of this, it is more noticeable with species like Camponotus or Formica with larger social stomachs.


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#14 Offline LC3 - Posted April 24 2016 - 10:15 AM

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Am I crazy, or is the 1st cup clearly Tetramorium?

I am positive that you didn't collect the queen for the colony in the first cup. You can see in this video that Tetramorium queens are reasonably larger than the workers 

 

I second this.



#15 Offline Socalfireants - Posted April 24 2016 - 10:34 AM

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In my experience queens are usually atleast 1-2 feet down. Atleast. Scooping ants at the surface under a rock is not very successful. The ants put brood under a warm rock to incubate it. The queen is usually deeper. What may look like a small colony above ground may travel many feet down

#16 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 25 2016 - 5:32 AM

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Thank you guys. Would you say it's safe to add the two orange cups together? I'd like to keep these guys going. As for the black ants, i'm going to release them when i get off work today. They're not taking to the cup life as much as the orange ants are.



#17 Offline Crystals - Posted April 25 2016 - 10:31 AM

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Is there any particular reason you want to keep a bunch of queenless workers?

To see if they get along, add one worker to the different cup first.  If they fight, they were from different colonies.  If they get a long, you can merge the two groups.


"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astound the rest." -- Samuel Clemens

 

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#18 Offline dermy - Posted April 25 2016 - 10:40 AM

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In my experience queens are usually atleast 1-2 feet down. Atleast. Scooping ants at the surface under a rock is not very successful. The ants put brood under a warm rock to incubate it. The queen is usually deeper. What may look like a small colony above ground may travel many feet down

This really depends on the particular species, as I have in my own experience [literally just this year and it's barely spring] lifted up a rock and under the rock was a queen [Myrmica] although they have multiple queens.



#19 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 25 2016 - 10:41 AM

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For now, the reason would be to have something to look at. Getting anxious on finding my first founding queen and these guys seem like they would do great as a bunch of workers in a dirt ant farm. Please help me make a better decision if you think this is wrong.

 

And, i'm only trying to combine the two so i can put them in one nest.



#20 Offline dermy - Posted April 25 2016 - 10:43 AM

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For now, the reason would be to have something to look at. Getting anxious on finding my first founding queen and these guys seem like they would do great as a bunch of workers in a dirt ant farm. Please help me make a better decision if you think this is wrong.

 

And, i'm only trying to combine the two so i can put them in one nest.

I think as long as you try what crystals has described that it should work, nothing wrong with taking a few workers and testing out ant keeping, even if they don't act 100% normally [some ants don't act very normal without queens] it's still fun.






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