54 replies to this topic

[Reacker]

"Tapinoma sessile are actually invasive in an urban environment, despite being native." "And they are native, but can become invasive if conditions are right."

 

What does that even mean? Please define 'invasive' so that we can gain a better understanding of what you are saying.

 

"I've seen Tapinoma sessile get millions of ants in a period of two years."

 

How did you determine this? Have you ever bothered to do any testing to confirm the accuracy of your methods? Did you ever estimate a colony size and then dig it up to count every single ant to see if the reality matched your estimation?

[Vendayn]

This sort of attitude is exactly one of the reasons why our worlds ecosystems are so screwed up. The attitude of "well there is no evidence it is a potential problem so lets not worry about it" is so very short sighted and foolish, *read stupid) If there is a chance of an issue why take any more chance than you have to. It is obvious that not all activities which have even the slightest chance moving a pathogen can be  is practical or even possible .Contrary to what one member has said it is not hypocritical to walk out your front door. What would be hypocritical is for someone to protest the practice then do it themselves. The following is copied out of a post made here on this very message board ( which sadly I can not relocate) regarding a colony of Tapinoma sessile which was released in a keepers yard. If the report is 100 percent accurate or even partially accurate it should a warning to be heeded.

 

 “To get started this colony (Tapinoma sessile) has done something amazing.  They are actually killing off the Tetramorium sp. E in my backyard! Anyway, the colony was actually was put in my yard by me. I got them from one of the GAN (Global ant nursery) farmers along with another colony. I didn't know what to do with them so I let them loose in my yard. When I released them they had 100+ workers and 5 queens. However they are probably at 100+ queens now (This is an estimate i could be completely wrong about the number of queens) and they are easily over 200,000 workers. I wouldn't care about these ants normally. However, they are killing off all of the other species in my yard. I know they've killed off 2-3 mature Formica colonies, a large Crematogaster colony and a Camponotus pennsylvanicus. (pennsylvanicus) colony. The Tetramorium colony was at about 10,000 workers when I released the Tapinoma colony. Now they are probably under 1,000. I'm not sure if I should try to kill the Tapinoma or not because they are native. I expect this colony to grow much more as they are only 1 year and 4 months old.”

But to quote, that is also a good point. Releasing native ants does risk killing other native ants in the area, if they happen to survive and not be killed by other ants.

 

So while I don't really agree with the pathogen thing, I still agree that releasing native ants isn't the best idea. At least in most cases. I know they have scientists over in the UK that at one point (don't know if they still do) that they were releasing that endangered Formica ant I think it was. But, in that regard they'd at least have the proper equipment and use their knowledge to give the ants the best chance of survival.

[Vendayn]

"Tapinoma sessile are actually invasive in an urban environment, despite being native." "And they are native, but can become invasive if conditions are right."

 

What does that even mean? Please define 'invasive' so that we can gain a better understanding of what you are saying.

 

"I've seen Tapinoma sessile get millions of ants in a period of two years."

 

How did you determine this? Have you ever bothered to do any testing to confirm the accuracy of your methods? Did you ever estimate a colony size and then dig it up to count every single ant to see if the reality matched your estimation?

(edited for obvious reasons to those who saw and its quoted anyway lol. If this wasn't a troll bait post, sorry, if not the old contents of this post didn't need to be on the forums anyway even if the quote is bait (or not))

 

http://animaldiversi...pinoma_sessile/

 

"In natural areas, odorous house ants form small colonies and co-exist near the nests of other ant species, although they are never a dominant species. However, in urban areas, odorous house ants become dominant, and are found in close proximity with few, if any, other ant species. They form large polydomous colonies with huge numbers that out-compete other ant species for resources. Even though they are a native species, they can function as an invasive species in urban areas. Recently, they have been found in Hawaii, where they have the potential to become an invasive species."

Edited by Vendayn, May 14 2018 - 8:05 PM.

[Reacker]

unless you are as retarded as I think you are

 

Could you please explain in detail why it is that my previous post was troll bait, and exactly what makes me so retarded? Also, what exactly do I believe that makes me a 'radical liberal'?

Edited by Reacker, May 14 2018 - 7:45 PM.

[Vendayn]

 

Well may as well remove this post too. I'm just gonna get off the internet for a while and calm down

Edited by Vendayn, May 14 2018 - 9:48 PM.

[Enderz]

Dang Vendayn, you need to calm down a bit. I don't believe that Reacker is retarded (though he is slightly annoying some times ).

Still you shouldn't call someone a fascist without any proof, this is an ant forum and you shouldn't be this harsh to your fellow members.

Next time don't be so quick to type something down.

[Barristan]

I completely agree with Vendayn. I am tired of the hypocrisy too, it seems to be widespread among Myrmecologists...
 
When CERN announced the start of the Large Hadron Collider, some people (even some scientists) feared that it would create a black hole which will consume the earth so they demanded to stop the experiments. Their argument: "It is possible" (the same what Myrmecologists tell you all the time about keeping non-native ants, releasing native ants etc.).

 

When I decide to go outside today and take the first step out of my door a meteorite could hit me in right that moment and kill me. Yes, that is possible. But should I be worried about it? No, because the probability is so low that it doesn't make any sense to be cautious about being hit by a meteorite.

 

So if you don't provide us any studies, facts etc., which illustrate how much of a threat releasing native ant species is, I will treat it like if someone told me that I should wear a helmet because I could be hit by meteorites.

 

By the way. The main reason why our environment is collapsing is the number of humans living on the earth.

[GeorgeK]

"Tapinoma sessile are actually invasive in an urban environment, despite being native." "And they are native, but can become invasive if conditions are right."

 

What does that even mean? Please define 'invasive' so that we can gain a better understanding of what you are saying.

 

"I've seen Tapinoma sessile get millions of ants in a period of two years."

 

How did you determine this? Have you ever bothered to do any testing to confirm the accuracy of your methods? Did you ever estimate a colony size and then dig it up to count every single ant to see if the reality matched your estimation?

Tapinomas are for sure damn oportunists. I had them get in fight 3-5 times with my colonies so far, but thankfully they never came in large enough numbers to make any difference before i started killing them. While i never ever saw foraging trail in my room, since its always clean, i sometimes notice scouts of tapinoma going around, and when they notice my colonies, soon they are released like damn flood. So all in all, they are native, yes, but they are not looking for forage, simply for other colonies to invade and kill.

All in all, I also agree with Vendayn.

Edited by GeorgeK, May 15 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[Martialis]

 

"Tapinoma sessile are actually invasive in an urban environment, despite being native." "And they are native, but can become invasive if conditions are right."

 

What does that even mean? Please define 'invasive' so that we can gain a better understanding of what you are saying.

 

"I've seen Tapinoma sessile get millions of ants in a period of two years."

 

How did you determine this? Have you ever bothered to do any testing to confirm the accuracy of your methods? Did you ever estimate a colony size and then dig it up to count every single ant to see if the reality matched your estimation?

Tapinomas are for sure damn oportunists. I had them get in fight 3-5 times with my colonies so far, but thankfully they never came in large enough numbers to make any difference before i started killing them. While i never ever saw foraging trail in my room, since its always clean, i sometimes notice scouts of t. sessile going around, and when they notice my colonies, soon they are released like damn flood. So all in all, they are native, yes, but they are not looking for forage, simply for other colonies to invade and kill.

All in all, I also agree with Vendayn.

 

 

Why are T. sessile in Serbia?

[Barristan]

Why are T. sessile in Serbia?

He didn't say that he spoke of Tapinoma in general.

[Deluga]

I completely agree with Vendayn. I am tired of the hypocrisy too, it seems to be widespread among Myrmecologists...
 
When CERN announced the start of the Large Hadron Collider, some people (even some scientists) feared that it would create a black hole which will consume the earth so they demanded to stop the experiments. Their argument: "It is possible" (the same what Myrmecologists tell you all the time about keeping non-native ants, releasing native ants etc.).

 

When I decide to go outside today and take the first step out of my door a meteorite could hit me in right that moment and kill me. Yes, that is possible. But should I be worried about it? No, because the probability is so low that it doesn't make any sense to be cautious about being hit by a meteorite.

 

So if you don't provide us any studies, facts etc., which illustrate how much of a threat releasing native ant species is, I will treat it like if someone told me that I should wear a helmet because I could be hit by meteorites.

 

By the way. The main reason why our environment is collapsing is the number of humans living on the earth.

 

I agree all the way with you Barristan. 

 

I don't see any problems with releasing native ants. If no evidence is provided, I do not believe it is true is does harm to the environment. Humans live outside and inside, and we do way more harm to the earth.

[Gamer700]

I highly dissagre with the whole don't release native ants thing. And I'm disappointed that a bunch of people are more inclined to freezing the colonies. And if you don't release the native alates I say that you are dong extreme harm to the ecosystem since you caught if the queen manages to raise a big and fat colony with alates that means good genes and if you don't release her you don't help out with the good gene ant population. Anyways this is just my own opinion and it gonna stay this way you can have your own opinions.

[SleepyAsianAnter]

I highly dissagre with the whole don't release native ants thing. And I'm disappointed that a bunch of people are more inclined to freezing the colonies. And if you don't release the native alates I say that you are dong extreme harm to the ecosystem since you caught if the queen manages to raise a big and fat colony with alates that means good genes and if you don't release her you don't help out with the good gene ant population. Anyways this is just my own opinion and it gonna stay this way you can have your own opinions.

 

You are free to have an opinion but it really should be supported by facts. 

 

The facts are that when mating flights happen, only 1 in a thousand or even 1 in ten thousand queens will live long enough to produce alates and grow a colony. When you go out and catch queens, you very likely do not have that one queen. 

 

Because you do not have that one queen, alates from your captive colony contain genes and traits that would not have naturally survived, thus it is unsafe to introduce those genes into the breeding pool. 

 

This same logic really applies to any pet, you should not be releasing animals that are born and raised in captivity. 

[The_Gaming-gate]

I’ll copy paste what I commented in a similar thread.

“ I wouldn’t mind releasing alates. The only valid argument with this would be that you could mess up genetics of a species- technically true- but what if you have a wild caught colony? What if you raise your ants in a vivarium? They certainly have good genes now. If you raise your ants with the intention to release alates, and take proper measures, the genetics of the species will be much less affected.”


Sure, most people releasing ants won’t do that- but if you know you will release alates and do this- or just want your ants in a vicarious with predators- then is it really that bad?
The same applies to releasing colonies.

Edited by The_Gaming-gate, May 28 2024 - 5:17 AM.

[mbullock42086]

I feel like world governments were intentionally releasing the argentine ant to create a problem in order to sell a pheromone based formicide to target L. humile and turn them into a massive cash cow.

 rules for thee not for me, eh?  lmao