21 replies to this topic

[drtrmiller]

I'm working on getting the materials I need to complete the hybrid acrylic/natural design.  The design calls for an optional wooden floor.  Laser cut hydration vents in the floor allow moisture through as ambient humidity.  A thin plastic film sits above the hydration reservoir just beneath the floor, keeping the wood from becoming saturated or getting in direct contact with the sponge/water.

 

Anyways, it is likely that thinner material would work best, as there will be less distance for the humid air to travel from the sponge section, to the nest area where the ants are being kept.

 

Any moisture on the inside of the nest can soak into the top of the wood, but the bottom of the wood floor is protected by the film, with only holes and slots cut to match the vents in the wooden floor.

 

Does anyone have any experience with 1/16" hardwood?  It's either that or 1/8" plywood with hardwood veneer.  I'm wondering whether the glue that holds together the plywood may be less durable in a semi-moist environment.  Likewise, I'm wondering if 1/16" will be too thin and prone to warping.  Maybe I should get both and see?

 

Here is the list of hardwoods I think would be most suitable, simply from the perspective of color contrast with respect to housing ants.  Time will tell if ants will be able to find a way to chew through these wooden floors—not that they'd get anywhere with the PETG film underneath.  But that's not a concern right now, as much as the ability to work with the thinner, 1/16" hardwood material over the 1/8" plywood varieties.

 

Edited by drtrmiller, January 5 2015 - 8:55 PM.

[dspdrew]

Wouldn't wood get all stained and nasty after a while? How are you going to clean it?

[drtrmiller]

It will get just as dirty as any surface. H2O2.

[James C. Trager]

You might also consider bamboo.

[drtrmiller]

You might also consider bamboo.

If I can find a vendor that sells the thickness I need, that would be an option. All I ordered right now came from a single vendor that does not stock bamboo.

[Mercutia]

I've seen formicariums made out of bamboo that haven't reported any issues.

[dean_k]

Have you considered using leather instead?

[Crystals]

My Grandpa is a carpenter, so I can ask him later.

 

As far as I know, all woods will swell or warp a bit in humidity over 50-60%.  Oak is one of the more common ones used in higher humidity situations, although it is often rubbed with lyn seed oil.  Not sure the ants would appreciate the oil though.

 

I am not sure if he worked with bamboo or not.

 

Avoid plywood or anything with a veneer, the glues/varethanes do not respond well to high humidity or heat.

 

 

So the wood is just being used to absorb any water/liquids that fall on it, and to let humidity from below to rise up? 

Have you looked at other porous materials like firebrick or some other porous ceramics, or inert materials?  I know there are quite a few varieties of firebrick, some more porous than others.  The type I see in my area is so porous that I can pour a 4 cup pitcher of water on it and it runs straight through the middle of the brick.  I got a shot of it in one of my firebrick videos.

[Trailandstreet]

Are you looking for a nest like these ones? http://www.ameisenfo...t-aus-holz.html

[dspdrew]

Have you considered using leather instead?

Yeah, I have something I'm working on that I might use something similar. Maybe some sort of chamois material.

[AntsAreUs]

I've used wood in fact I have a video of my nest, I did not use a sponge because I was afraid that will probably mold, instead I just made a closed off chamber that I barely watered and it seemed to work just fine (make sure you have it on a surface so that in case any water leaks out). I have had moths some how get into it which is fine by me because it's just more food. I have had no problems with it besides rusting because of I used screws to insure the glass in place and to make it removable. I still have it today and will likely use it in the future for my Camponotus! Oh and I used birch so yah.

Edited by Gaige Daughtrey, January 6 2015 - 3:08 PM.

[Gregory2455]

Terry, honestly, I think you should use a plastic or something made to look like wood.

[drtrmiller]

Terry, honestly, I think you should use a plastic or something made to look like wood.

 

I don't want something that "looks like" wood. I want a functional, organic medium on which the ants may live, so long as the performance is the same or better than plastics.

 

Anyone can buy plastic floors if they don't want wood, and it wouldn't cost any more.

 

If wood or natural materials introduce performance issues or other high-level concerns, then I won't use them.

 

When you make a statement like "I think you should...," you should back it up with an educated summary of why you hold the opinion.

 

Are you looking for a nest like these ones? http://www.ameisenfo...t-aus-holz.html

 

Not exactly.  This is a horizontal formicary with only the floor being wood.  Here is a finger-sized module that I could manufacture and distribute very cheaply, that would allow individuals to determine if the setup would work for them before buying the full-size modular system:

 

[Mercutia]

Another issue with wood is if it is treated or not. Though I imagine you've probably already taken that into consideration.

 

I'm still not convinced of the longevity of using wood. Would it be replaceable? Half the appeal is being able to take it apart to clean. If the wood is being used to soak up excess hydration and humidity, I imagine it's going to soak up other things like garbage and liquid waste which would make it prone to rot. If it's treated those things are less likely but leave concern to it's effect on the ants you put in it. It's kind of a double edged sword if you ask me.

[drtrmiller]

I repeat, if the longevity or performance is so poor that it needs to be replaced through the normal course of use, unlike a non-porous synthetic material like acrylic or another plastic, then the train of thought will be discontinued.

 

I'll be performing basic tests in the coming days to see if it there are any immediate problems.  If it passes those tests, then it will be considered for use in the final product.

 

If the product fails after extended use, then each case will be dealt with individually and the continued use of the material will be re-evaluated.

[Crystals]

If it is being used as a founding chamber, as long as the wood last the 6-15 months needed for the colony to outgrow the tube (and you could easily buy replacement wood pieces) I think it would work quite well.

I would have no issue replacing the wood piece with every new queen, in fact I would prefer to be able to do so.

I can't count the number of parasitic queens who put the pupae cocoons on the wet cotton in a test tube, soaking and killing them. They would only need 2-3 months for the workers to all eclose and fatten them up.

[Mercutia]

I agree, if the replacement wood can be purchased in packs at a fair price, I think it's reasonable and could work quite well. Especially when I think about using substrate instead, the idea of wooden floors to absorb excess humidity and such is far more agreeable and far less messy. I think I would prefer it if the wood were replaceable too. If this were the case I'd opt for the more organic and less processed version. Even if it degrades faster, I don't think I would mind that too much because I would feel safer using it than processed or treated alternatives.

[drtrmiller]

My supplier for the hardwood veneers informed me it would be a week or two before they could fulfill my order, so I cancelled it and placed an order with another vendor.

 

It looks like I won't have an opportunity to laser cut and test the hardwood veneers until next week, but I did order a larger variety—10 species of wood—as I am told that the plywoods may not be a suitable choice for a moist environment.  I should mention that these hardwood veneers are made-to-order, and I don't believe they have received any sort of treatment.

 

Here are the varieties I will be trying:

 

 

I also emailed a company that manufactures 1/8" thick, single ply bamboo sheets, but I haven't yet received a reply.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 7 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Crystals]

I once put a sun dried piece of maple in a large fish tank once, it last about 4-6 months before a bacteria slime started to cover it.  That was fully submerged maple, so I am curious to see how those slats do in simple humidity.

Never tried oak, it wasn't advised to put it in a fish tank as the water absorbed something from it and certain fish did not react well to it.  But ants live in damp acorns, and it holds up well in the damp, so I am curious to see it in action.

Depending on the type of poplar, I am divided.  Some good white poplars (trembling aspen) are quite durable, but black poplar rots very easily in even mild damp.  Both types are common in forests around here.  I hear some of the European or those from Sweden handle the damp with much more grace.  But I find the vast majority of Camponotus queens in fallen black poplar logs, so I am curious to see how they do.

No real experience with any of the rest of the woods.

 

I would be curious to see a lineup of these formicariums, each with a different wood, side by side with time shot pictures every 2 weeks or so to show they react and age.

[Mercutia]

And here I was picking a favorite based on grain pattern and coloration. LOL. I just like pretty things. xDDD