22 replies to this topic

[drtrmiller]

I have been made aware of recent grumblings over the byFormica Liquid Feeders clogging over time. This is a known product feature, and not a flaw.

 

 

The above illustration shows what happens when solutions containing protein are added to any liquid feeder.

 

My design philosophy for liquid feeders is that a liquid feeder should not be a tool to allow one to neglect their ants.

 

People who have dogs, cats, hamsters, and lizards must feed and care for their pets daily. There is no legitimate reason why one should expect ant care to take any less effort. Therefore, the liquid feeder I designed is more of a "replenishing puddle," which will naturally evaporate, leaving the reserved liquid more thick over time, wherein it must be frequently replaced. The smallest Lightyear liquid feeders allow for the addition of 10-20 drops of liquid—so there is little waste when replenishing liquid food for even the smallest colony on a daily basis.

 

All liquid feeders work best with either distilled water, or a sugar solution that also has preservatives to protect the quality, such as Formula Green 600 or some "hummingbird nectars."

 

It is foolhardy to claim that such a feeder exists so as to allow one to feed a liquid solution containing protein for days or weeks, unattended. All proteins will spoil in the nutrient-rich broth of any liquid feeder, and so I include in the written instruction booklets, guidelines for use:

 

Liquid Food - - - - - - - - Useful Life

Green 600 - - - - - - - - - -  Until viscous (thick)

Distilled Water - - - - - - - Until depleted

Sugar or honey water - - - Until viscous or milky (due to bacteria growth)

Aqua 300 - - - - - - - - - - - 24 hours

"Complete Ant Juice" - - - 24 hours

Blue 100 - - - - - - - - - - - -12 hours

 

[Jan 15, 2015] About Blue 100 and 155 Solubility:

I have been examining the properties of the Blue 100 series of Ant diets for use in the LIGHTYEAR Liquid Feeders.
 

Previously, I mentioned that Blue 100 & 155 form a sediment of undissolved protein in liquid feeders.

 

I have had success incorporating these proteins with water by blending them at high speeds (using a food processor or juice blender) with the requisite amount of warm water (35-45 ml) for use in the liquid feeders.

 

Blue 155 is recommended for this application, as it may be cooked fully without setting into a gel.

 

If ants will not eat Blue 100 series diets in liquid form, the Blue foods may be mixed with Formula Green 600, or, if Green 600 is unavailable, a small amount of white sugar (do not use honey, brown sugar, or artificial sugars).

 

If my ants do not want liquid Blue 100 for some reason, I add 20-25 drops of diluted Green 600 (prepared with up to 50 ml hot water), and then 5-10 drops of Blue 100 to the liquid feeder.  The proportions may be modified, as ants will respond differently to different ratios, depending on a number of environmental and biological factors and conditions.

 

Since I understand that not everyone has access to equipment to blend the liquid, I will continue to examine alternative methods of incorporating the proteins into the water to form a suspension that may be made at home without additional equipment.

 

Edited by drtrmiller, January 15 2015 - 2:58 PM.

[Mercutia]

Can you make it not evaporate so fast. I only use it to feed formula green and even then I find it becoming thick and gooey before I would really like it to. Also, it is very dry in my room so that increases evaporation. The 360 degree holes are a little excessive.

 

EDIT: Also just to give you an idea of how fast, I did a test with the bigger one with just water, left it in my room to see how much it goes down just based on evaporation. It lost almost 1cm of water. And that was just in 2 days.

[drtrmiller]

You can dilute your Green 600 with as much as 2x the recommended water, and also rehydrate it every day or two rather than adding more.  It's some potent stuff.  

 

Green 600 can be made to last virtually forever with the slightest care.

 

Feeders that have fewer orifices almost always have the problem of larger bubble entrapments that pose a danger to small ants by sucking them inside the feeder. I've read of customers who have European store feeders being told to add gravel to the basin where the water accumulates, and with THA's liquid feeder product, you have a mesh screen that forms a physical barrier to keep ants from crawling inside. Each of these fixes simply masks, rather than addresses, the root problem, which is solved by having multiple orifices, at the sacrifice of having to change the liquid more frequently.

 

In summary, the larger number of holes take advantage of physical forces that keep ants from being sucked inside and thus dying.

 

Having said that, I am continuously exploring the possibility of reducing the number of orifices, but I don't want that to have a negative effect on the distributed pressure system that currently allows for microbubbles to displace lost liquid.

[Mercutia]

At this evaporation rate though, the small one is practically useless for long periods of time. (And I can't fit the bigger on in the current out world I have right now.)

I'll try a more diluted solution. But do see if you can come up with something that lasts longer. I just want a permanent installed feeder for carbs just always available with minimum hassle. Just for sugar water and formula green.

[Miles]

The issues that I have experienced with mine have not been the clogging issue, but that the ants seemed remarkably disturbed by its presence in their outworld; they also drowned. 

I suppose that you will have to take my word that I didn't kill my ants and put them in the feeder. But I hope that you can do that.

 

Species: Lasius pallitarsis

 

Environment: THA Mini Haven

 

Water Feeder: Have used a THA water feeder with this colony for over a year. No problems with drowning due to a mesh covering.

 

 

Edited by Miles, January 11 2015 - 2:02 PM.

[drtrmiller]

I appreciate your feedback, Miles.

 

I haven't actually experienced a single ant crawling into my feeders I use on a daily basis with both small and large ants, alike.  

 

I even consulted Drew, who tested it on a colony of Brachymyrmex (1mm long ants, for those not familiar), and we concluded that not a single ant drowned, and thus the feeders were safe.

 

I will say, however, that I don't regularly use the feeders with plain water, but rather with Green 600, which does slightly thicken over time. That could be an important distinction.

 

I'm working on a new feeder that is literally incapable of drowning ants, as it has no orifice for ants to crawl in and works via mechanisms similar to osmosis.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 11 2015 - 2:07 PM.

[Mercutia]

I have Tetramoriums too and not one of them can even fit in the feeder gaps. How on earth are your Lasius getting in there.

[drtrmiller]

I have Tetramoriums too and not one of them can even fit in the feeder gaps. How on earth are your Lasius getting in there.

He's referring to the LIGHTYEAR which has the 16 holes.  Are you referring to the old feeders or the new LIGHTYEAR ones you received recently?

[Mercutia]

 

I have Tetramoriums too and not one of them can even fit in the feeder gaps. How on earth are your Lasius getting in there.

He's referring to the LIGHTYEAR which has the 16 holes.  Are you referring to the old feeders or the new LIGHTYEAR ones you received recently?

 

Has to be the lightyear one. You can see the base of it in one of his pics.

[drtrmiller]

 

 

I have Tetramoriums too and not one of them can even fit in the feeder gaps. How on earth are your Lasius getting in there.

He's referring to the LIGHTYEAR which has the 16 holes.  Are you referring to the old feeders or the new LIGHTYEAR ones you received recently?

 

Has to be the lightyear one. You can see the base of it in one of his pics.

 

 

Yes, I know Miles was referring to LIGHTYEAR.  I wasn't sure if you, Mercutia, were referring to LIGHTYEAR, however.

[dean_k]

Is it possible for the feeders to be made with something other than pale white material?

 

Sometimes it's hard to see whether plain sugar water is coming out of there at times.

 

My Myrmica seems to have a knock for swimming, so I use the old feeder for them. They love swimming inside and not one drowned.

[Mercutia]

Oh yes. I was using the lightyear. No problems with ants getting in.

[Miles]

I appreciate your feedback, Miles.

 

I haven't actually experienced a single ant crawling into my feeders I use on a daily basis with both small and large ants, alike.  

 

I even consulted Drew, who tested it on a colony of Brachymyrmex (1mm long ants, for those not familiar), and we concluded that not a single ant drowned, and thus the feeders were safe.

 

I will say, however, that I don't regularly use the feeders with plain water, but rather with Green 600, which does slightly thicken over time. That could be an important distinction.

 

I'm working on a new feeder that is literally incapable of drowning ants, as it has no orifice for ants to crawl in and works via mechanisms similar to osmosis.

 

My Lasius are escape artists in every sense. They will find every nook and cranny and imperfection. Honestly I think they are a little psychotic about it all.

I think the water vs green 600 distinction may be a big factor. But they were designed to be used with distilled water too, right? I wasn't misusing the feeder?

I would be interested in comparing the new feeder with this one for this colony.

Like I said, and I'm not sure if Mercutia was insinuating or not, you'll have to take my word that my ants did indeed die inside the feeder. But I assure you that they did. I wouldn't post this if I didn't want to ensure future designs didn't cause more deaths.

[dspdrew]

I checked all of mine, and I did find a few S. molesta downed in the reservoir. Keep in mind, that this colony is pretty big--around 1000 workers the last time I checked, and I probably have more than that die every day naturally judging by their pile of dead workers. Since I didn't see any of my other small species like Temnothorax, Brachymyrmex, and Pheidole, with any drowned ants, I can only assume this does not happen all that often. For my S. molesta colony, it was probably not even .1 percent of the ants that this happened to, so I'm not too worried.

[drtrmiller]

Drew just confirmed that his tiniest ants, S. molesta, did have a few that had been sucked into the feeder.

 

I'll send you a prototype of the newest one you can use to compare.

[Miles]

Drew just confirmed that his tiniest ants, S. molesta, did have a few that had been sucked into the feeder.

 

I'll send you a prototype of the newest one you can use to compare.

Thank you. Hopefully (sounds like) the problem has been resolved.

[Mercutia]

I always imagined that L. pallitarsis were bigger than Tetramoriums. And I have yet to see any of my ants crawl in and get sucked up. Just pointing out my experience.

[Miles]

They are about the same size. My Lasius pallitarsis workers have yet to reach their full potential size as this was their second year.

 

Edit: Not intending to hijack this thread.

Edited by Miles, January 11 2015 - 2:54 PM.

[Mercutia]

Lol. I don't think Miller minds. Not that I could speak for him. It would be nice if you could put up a few journals of your colonies Miles. I bet you have some interesting species and you can talk on a more advanced level about your experiences with them and their habits.

 

EDIT: Seems I spoke too late. I just saw your post for your Crematogasters.

[Miles]

Lol. I don't think Miller minds. Not that I could speak for him. It would be nice if you could put up a few journals of your colonies Miles. I bet you have some interesting species and you can talk on a more advanced level about your experiences with them and their habits.

 

EDIT: Seems I spoke too late. I just saw your post for your Crematogasters.

That's actually pretty funny. I might add another journal here at some point. I'll start with the Crematogaster.