14 replies to this topic

[PwnerPie]

Hi everyone! First time posting on Formiculture, Been hanging out at Ants Canada for about 6 months. 

I have 7 queens that I want to get identified, hoping to the exact species.

 

Question at this point, how should I post them? Should I do a different thread for each, or just all of them in this thread?

[AntsMaryland]

Just post them all in this thread.

[T.C.]

Post them in the same thread, and use the template here.

[PwnerPie]

Picked up all of these last year, Aug-Oct in Western Washington. All found off the i90 freeway, at an elevation of about 400 ft. Found on a sidewalk between Aug-Oct. I haven't been able to locate a nest. Added thoughts next to some of the names

 

1)

• Size: 13mm.
• Color: Red/Black
• Genus/Species: (Formica/Camponotus?)
• Pupae: No cocoon

 

2)

• Size: 11mm.
• Color: Black. 
• Genus/Species: (formica argentea??)

 

3)

• Size: 6mm.
• Color: Red/Black. 
• Genus: Myrmica Sp
• Pupae: NO cocoon

 

4)

• Size: 12mm.
• Color: Black 
• Genus/Species: (formica argentea??)

 

5)

• Size: 11mm.
• Color: Red
• Genus/Species: (formica?)
• Pupae: Cocoon

 

6)

• Size: 10mm.
• Color: Red/Black
• Genus/Species: (formica?)

 

7)

• Size: 17mm.
• Color: Black. 
• Genus/Species: (camponotus pennsylvanicus)

Edited by PwnerPie, March 26 2018 - 2:10 PM.

[VoidElecent]

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

Try to get some better pictures of 5 and 6, they could be parasitic Formica.

Edited by VoidElecent, March 26 2018 - 1:25 PM.

[PwnerPie]

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

Try to get some better pictures of 5 and 6, they could be parasitic Formica.

Ill get some new pictures when I get home (the recommended ones) so we can get these ID'd. 5 has a bunch of eggs and pupae, can the parasitic queens lay eggs without taking over a colony? My thought was pennsylvanicus because she has the peditole spike, apparently modoc isn't supposed to have it? Not sure. Any thoughts on what type of Myrmica #3 is?

[VoidElecent]

 

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

Try to get some better pictures of 5 and 6, they could be parasitic Formica.

Ill get some new pictures when I get home (the recommended ones) so we can get these ID'd. 5 has a bunch of eggs and pupae, can the parasitic queens lay eggs without taking over a colony? My thought was pennsylvanicus because she has the peditole spike, apparently modoc isn't supposed to have it? Not sure. Any thoughts on what type of Myrmica #3 is?

 

 

Then I stand corrected, parasitic queens won't lay eggs without a host colony. I still believe 5 and 6 are Formica, however. Myrmica identification is essentially impossible without sophisticated equipment so it might be best to leave queen #3 at "Myrmica sp.". Also, Myrmica are semi-claustral so if you haven't already, open up her test tube to a small outworld and feed her a fruit fly and some honey every once in a while.

[PwnerPie]

 

 

 

Then I stand corrected, parasitic queens won't lay eggs without a host colony. I still believe 5 and 6 are Formica, however. Myrmica identification is essentially impossible without sophisticated equipment so it might be best to leave queen #3 at "Myrmica sp.". Also, Myrmica are semi-claustral so if you haven't already, open up her test tube to a small outworld and feed her a fruit fly and some honey every once in a while.

 

 

Ah, thanks for the replies here. Yeah, found that out too late sadly as I had 2 of the Myrmicas, but 1 died before I decided to start feeding my queens. =/

If it helps at all, #5s brood are growing WAY faster than all the others, 5 out of my 7 are laying eggs, #5 was the 4th one to start laying, and her eggs are further along than all of them. Started laying over a week after #1. I assume that means #5 has very small workers. Crazy how much quicker her eggs are growing than the 2 black Formica Argentea.

Edited by PwnerPie, March 26 2018 - 1:56 PM.

[nurbs]

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

Try to get some better pictures of 5 and 6, they could be parasitic Formica.

 

Most likely C. modoc if found in the Western US. They are very similar to C. pennsylvanicus. 

 

#3 looks like Temnothorax or Leptothorax, but 6mm may still be too large. Difference between the two is number of antennae segments. 

 

 

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

Try to get some better pictures of 5 and 6, they could be parasitic Formica.

Ill get some new pictures when I get home (the recommended ones) so we can get these ID'd. 5 has a bunch of eggs and pupae, can the parasitic queens lay eggs without taking over a colony? My thought was pennsylvanicus because she has the peditole spike, apparently modoc isn't supposed to have it? Not sure. Any thoughts on what type of Myrmica #3 is?

 

 

 

Find any Formica brood out in the field and give them to the queens. A few years ago, I recorded a parasitic formica stealing brood in captivity. Gave her all kinds of random brood (even Lasius) which she happily accepted.

 

It was fascinating to watch.

 

 

Edited by nurbs, March 26 2018 - 2:47 PM.

[VoidElecent]

 

Your guesses look pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't be so quick to jump directly to a species for each just yet. Formica can be very tough to identify and I'm not sure how likely it is you found C. pennsylvanicus in Washington state.

 

#3 looks like Temnothorax or Leptothorax, but 6mm may still be too large. Difference between the two is number of antennae segments. 

 

Queen 3's size is really the main reason I decided it would be O.K. to stick with Myrmica. Although the more I think about it, those mandibles look awfully Stenamma-esque, but again, the size is off. 

 

Remeasure this queen, if it's closer to 3-4 mm than 6, it might be more suitable to consider Temnothorax, Leptothorax, Myrmecina (unlikely, Myrmecina americana have a very distinct shape), and Stenamma spp.

[LC3]

I'd like to throw in a few options here. Formica subpolita or F. neorufibarbis (glossy less hairy) and F. pacifica or F. mccooki (more hairy)  Based on an ID thread I posted last year answered by BSF. Since the region is more or less similar. (queen#1)

 

I agree with nurbs that the Camponotus is much more likely to be C. modoc then C. pennsylvanicus. See if it has dark red legs.

 

That queen is Myrmica, most likely the invasive species M. specioides. The other three that occur near the coast are M. incompleta, sometimes M. brevispinosa and M. rubra which is only in a few locations. M. incompleta is much larger around 7mm and black with red highlights, M. brevispinosa is a lighter orange colour.  The rest of the Myrmica occur more inland around central WA. 6mm is well in the range of M. specioides and I've found queens that are as small as 5mm. M. rubra prefers irrigated lawns and spreads by budding here apparently so I doubt it would be off a highway.

 

Try taking getting a good pic of the scape. If it has a distinct angled bend then it is most likely M. specioides. If not and is noticeably more shiny it is probably M. rubra. 

 

(Left: M. specioides, Right: M. rubra)

Still it's Myrmica so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good luck I guess.

Edited by LC3, March 26 2018 - 3:49 PM.

[PwnerPie]

I'd like to throw in a few options here. Formica subpolita or F. neorufibarbis (glossy less hairy) and F. pacifica or F. mccooki (more hairy)  Based on an ID thread I posted last year answered by BSF. Since the region is more or less similar. (queen#1)

 

I agree with nurbs that the Camponotus is much more likely to be C. modoc then C. pennsylvanicus. See if it has dark red legs.

 

That queen is Myrmica, most likely the invasive species M. specioides. The other three that occur near the coast are M. incompleta, sometimes M. brevispinosa and M. rubra which is only in a few locations. M. incompleta is much larger around 7mm and black with red highlights, M. brevispinosa is a lighter orange colour.  The rest of the Myrmica occur more inland around central WA. 6mm is well in the range of M. specioides and I've found queens that are as small as 5mm. M. rubra prefers irrigated lawns and spreads by budding here apparently so I doubt it would be off a highway.

 

Try taking getting a good pic of the scape. If it has a distinct angled bend then it is most likely M. specioides. If not and is noticeably more shiny it is probably M. rubra. 

(Left: M. specioides, Right: M. rubra)

Still it's Myrmica so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good luck I guess.

 

Been trying to figure it out, but can't, haha. What is a "scape"?

Edited by PwnerPie, March 26 2018 - 4:38 PM.

[LC3]

The scape is the long first section of the antena. The part that attaches to the head.

Edited by LC3, March 26 2018 - 5:10 PM.

[PwnerPie]

Alright, so going to go down the list here to see what we have:

1) Formica sp?

2) Formica Argentea

3) Myrmica sp?

4) Formica Argentea

5) Formica sp

6) Formica sp

7) Camponotus Modoc

 

Couple questions

Anything on the list above wrong?

Any ideas on further identification? I will add a link to imagur with further pictures tonight to hopefully help out with this one! Most curious on ant #1, as she has the most brood.

[TennesseeAnts]

Queen six is definitely F. pacifica. The black Formica are F. argentea.

Edited by Ant_Dude2908, April 26 2018 - 6:56 PM.