24 replies to this topic

[AntBread]

So I have a Formica Subsericea queen and after I gave her a grape and put some sand in her outworld, she is completely ignoring her larvae/eggs. I'm not sure if it is cause her brood is dead or because she is busy eating.

[ZllGGY]

is she the only ant in her set up?

[Penguin]

If its just a queen then she may be stressed from the opening in her nest entry (Formica sp. are known for abandoning their brood). Formica are fully claustral so they don't need food for the founding stage.

[ZllGGY]

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

[AntBread]

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

her outworld is very small, it is the ac test tube portal from antscanda.

[ZllGGY]

 

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

her outworld is very small, it is the ac test tube portal from antscanda.

 

well being a fully claustral queen its probably too exposed for her without other ants to defend her so just plug up the test tube with cotton and she should be fine

[AntBread]

If its just a queen then she may be stressed from the opening in her nest entry (Formica sp. are known for abandoning their brood). Formica are fully claustral so they don't need food for the founding stage.

Ik but I caught her last year (August) and I she hasn't broken off her wings. Also, she has had multiple failed brood so I thought that she might need food. She has been accepting mealworms and apples lately though.

[ZllGGY]

 

If its just a queen then she may be stressed from the opening in her nest entry (Formica sp. are known for abandoning their brood). Formica are fully claustral so they don't need food for the founding stage.

Ik but I caught her last year (August) and I she hasn't broken off her wings. Also, she has had multiple failed brood so I thought that she might need food. She has been accepting mealworms and apples lately though.

 

also my man she could just be a dud queen as it tends to happen with the hobby no matter how much TLC you give them they can honestly be good one day and the next be dead

[AntBread]

If its just a queen then she may be stressed from the opening in her nest entry (Formica sp. are known for abandoning their brood). Formica are fully claustral so they don't need food for the founding stage.

Ik but I caught her last year (August) and I she hasn't broken off her wings. Also, she has had multiple failed brood so I thought that she might need food. She has been accepting mealworms and apples lately though.

also my man she could just be a dud queen as it tends to happen with the hobby no matter how much TLC you give them they can honestly be good one day and the next be dead

I doubt that she is a dud... been alive for way to long without food to be a dud.

[AntBread]

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

her outworld is very small, it is the ac test tube portal from antscanda.

well being a fully claustral queen its probably too exposed for her without other ants to defend her so just plug up the test tube with cotton and she should be fine

I’ll try that. But the only reason I started feeding her was cause she started to consume her brood

[ZllGGY]

 

 

 

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

her outworld is very small, it is the ac test tube portal from antscanda.

well being a fully claustral queen its probably too exposed for her without other ants to defend her so just plug up the test tube with cotton and she should be fine

I’ll try that. But the only reason I started feeding her was cause she started to consume her brood

 

normally the consumtion of brood is due to her not feeling safe in her chamber but just give her a nice tight chamber and a dark area and she should be fine

[noebl1]

I had a real long post, then deleted it as I think Ziggy is dead on with his points.  Take out the test tube portal (I've had terrible luck with these personally), and close off the test tube with cotton, then leave her be for awhile on a dark place for a few weeks.  Sometimes our best intentions with new queens trying to help them have negative results as we end up stressing them out.  

 

If you caught her last Fall/summer, she should be ok more than likely and not need to be feed if full claustral (that's assuming she was hibernated properly this winter.)  If you didn't hibernate, that could be the problem as well.

 

Worst case as Ziggy mention, she could very well be a dud.  Just because she lived this long or laid, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with her (or even fertile.)  I've had new queens die within a couple days for no reason, live for weeks and die, lay infertile eggs and then eventually die, do nothing, and die.  I kept two 2016 colonies of Tetramorium, kept conditions/feeding pretty much the same, and this year one queen randomly died (while the workers were all fine), 2 weeks after I removed them from hibernation, so you just never know.

[AntBread]

I had a real long post, then deleted it as I think Ziggy is dead on with his points. Take out the test tube portal (I've had terrible luck with these personally), and close off the test tube with cotton, then leave her be for awhile on a dark place for a few weeks. Sometimes our best intentions with new queens trying to help them have negative results as we end up stressing them out.

If you caught her last Fall/summer, she should be ok more than likely and not need to be feed if full claustral (that's assuming she was hibernated properly this winter.) If you didn't hibernate, that could be the problem as well.

Worst case as Ziggy mention, she could very well be a dud. Just because she lived this long or laid, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with her (or even fertile.) I've had new queens die within a couple days for no reason, live for weeks and die, lay infertile eggs and then eventually die, do nothing, and die. I kept two 2016 colonies of Tetramorium, kept conditions/feeding pretty much the same, and this year one queen randomly died (while the workers were all fine), 2 weeks after I removed them from hibernation, so you just never know.

Alright. Thanks for the help. I tried to hibernate her but she wouldn’t hibernate for some reason and just got a bit sluggish (inside a mini fridge, 30-40 ish degrees Fahrenheit)

[AntBread]

 

 

 

 

like penguin said you putting food in and her set up being too big might be the reasons she's not tending the brood

her outworld is very small, it is the ac test tube portal from antscanda.

well being a fully claustral queen its probably too exposed for her without other ants to defend her so just plug up the test tube with cotton and she should be fine

I’ll try that. But the only reason I started feeding her was cause she started to consume her brood

 

normally the consumtion of brood is due to her not feeling safe in her chamber but just give her a nice tight chamber and a dark area and she should be fine

 

Ok. Thanks!

[PwnerPie]

I am a strong proponent of feeding queens, I do it with all of mine, and I have yet to have 1 eat an egg. They are actually laying eggs like crazy!

 

As far as yours not tending the brood, just make sure the area is warm. She will work through her issues. If she is eating that means she has not given up (my first ant queen did this, because I did everything wrong..), so just make sure she is warm and fed. And try not to bother her too much (no more than once a day checking on her). 

 

Just relax. Ants will do what they feel like doing. If she is fertile, you should be good. I find honey to be very helpful in getting fully-claustral queens to start laying, give that a shot! Very potent, and does not mold easy. Fairly easy to put a drop in a closed test tube without worry about it molding (takes about a month in my experiences to mold in an ant environment). GL! don't stress!

[ZllGGY]

I am a strong proponent of feeding queens, I do it with all of mine, and I have yet to have 1 eat an egg. They are actually laying eggs like crazy!

 

As far as yours not tending the brood, just make sure the area is warm. She will work through her issues. If she is eating that means she has not given up (my first ant queen did this, because I did everything wrong..), so just make sure she is warm and fed. And try not to bother her too much (no more than once a day checking on her). 

 

Just relax. Ants will do what they feel like doing. If she is fertile, you should be good. I find honey to be very helpful in getting fully-claustral queens to start laying, give that a shot! Very potent, and does not mold easy. Fairly easy to put a drop in a closed test tube without worry about it molding (takes about a month in my experiences to mold in an ant environment). GL! don't stress!

feeding queens can produce different results with every queen. some queens will (who are claustral) will feel uncomfortable with anything but her and her brood in her chamber and may cause her to eat her eggs as she feels the chamber is compromised. this won't happen for every ant but i feel that if you have a claustral queen why risk adding stress and just let her do what she does naturally

[PwnerPie]

 

I am a strong proponent of feeding queens, I do it with all of mine, and I have yet to have 1 eat an egg. They are actually laying eggs like crazy!

 

As far as yours not tending the brood, just make sure the area is warm. She will work through her issues. If she is eating that means she has not given up (my first ant queen did this, because I did everything wrong..), so just make sure she is warm and fed. And try not to bother her too much (no more than once a day checking on her). 

 

Just relax. Ants will do what they feel like doing. If she is fertile, you should be good. I find honey to be very helpful in getting fully-claustral queens to start laying, give that a shot! Very potent, and does not mold easy. Fairly easy to put a drop in a closed test tube without worry about it molding (takes about a month in my experiences to mold in an ant environment). GL! don't stress!

feeding queens can produce different results with every queen. some queens will (who are claustral) will feel uncomfortable with anything but her and her brood in her chamber and may cause her to eat her eggs as she feels the chamber is compromised. this won't happen for every ant but i feel that if you have a claustral queen why risk adding stress and just let her do what she does naturally

 

 

The thought here, is that it is very hard to know for sure how well fed the queen was when she flew from the nest. Also, if a queen is starving, that is going to cause more stress. So if she is bumped and gets any more stressed she will eat her eggs in case she needs to run. Even in the wild, queens will deal with some interruptions. And if food is dropped into their nest, they will eat it. 

I feed my queens to give them the best chance of success as possible. I am sure some will not like it (I do have a carpenter ant that refuses to eat, I stopped trying to feed her and have her locked away now. I have a strong feeling she is infertile though), so I definitely agree its not a 100% approach. But from my testing, it has been enormously successful in feeding the queens. Especially after hibernation, I couldn't get the honey on the wall fast enough, they were eating it right off the toothpick. Seeing how much their gasters grew, they were starving. Within 2 days of feeding 4 out of the 5 queens started laying their first eggs.

 

Recently I gave 3 founding queens with larvae a section of meal worm, within a basic test tube setup with no workers. All 3 were eating within 5 minutes, and were running back a forth eating more then feeding their larvae. I won't say at this point it was 100% the right thing to do, more testing is needed, but at this point I have to think that it will make the larva more healthy going forward since they were fed more.

 

I will continue with my testing with the queens I get this coming year, and let you know how it goes!

A thought: Nature provides humans with the ability to go about a month without food, I doubt anyone likes to go more than half a day without food.   Nature provides queens the ability to go the entire founding process without food, I doubt they like waiting that long to eat! I bet they will feel a lot more comfortable if they are full and don't have to worry about starving! They will probably feel a lot better about laying more eggs as well since they have so much food to give.

[ZllGGY]

 

 

I am a strong proponent of feeding queens, I do it with all of mine, and I have yet to have 1 eat an egg. They are actually laying eggs like crazy!

 

As far as yours not tending the brood, just make sure the area is warm. She will work through her issues. If she is eating that means she has not given up (my first ant queen did this, because I did everything wrong..), so just make sure she is warm and fed. And try not to bother her too much (no more than once a day checking on her). 

 

Just relax. Ants will do what they feel like doing. If she is fertile, you should be good. I find honey to be very helpful in getting fully-claustral queens to start laying, give that a shot! Very potent, and does not mold easy. Fairly easy to put a drop in a closed test tube without worry about it molding (takes about a month in my experiences to mold in an ant environment). GL! don't stress!

feeding queens can produce different results with every queen. some queens will (who are claustral) will feel uncomfortable with anything but her and her brood in her chamber and may cause her to eat her eggs as she feels the chamber is compromised. this won't happen for every ant but i feel that if you have a claustral queen why risk adding stress and just let her do what she does naturally

 

 

 

A thought: Nature provides humans with the ability to go about a month without food, I doubt anyone likes to go more than half a day without food.   Nature provides queens the ability to go the entire founding process without food, I doubt they like waiting that long to eat! I bet they will feel a lot more comfortable if they are full and don't have to worry about starving! They will probably feel a lot better about laying more eggs as well since they have so much food to give.

 

also a thought animals that thermo-regulate don't necessarily need to eat as often as animals that maintain their own heat. but i see your point and findings good sir. where as you seem pretty experienced my guidelines i guess would be more for the newer people who don't know everything and so it may ruin their chances. but good documentation on your part

[PwnerPie]

also a thought animals that thermo-regulate don't necessarily need to eat as often as animals that maintain their own heat. but i see your point and findings good sir. where as you seem pretty experienced my guidelines i guess would be more for the newer people who don't know everything and so it may ruin their chances. but good documentation on your part

 

 

 

 

Ah, definitely see your point here. Over time once I get enough documented, may be able to get some "best practices" for the new ones!

[ZllGGY]

 

also a thought animals that thermo-regulate don't necessarily need to eat as often as animals that maintain their own heat. but i see your point and findings good sir. where as you seem pretty experienced my guidelines i guess would be more for the newer people who don't know everything and so it may ruin their chances. but good documentation on your part

 

 

 

 

Ah, definitely see your point here. Over time once I get enough documented, may be able to get some "best practices" for the new ones!

 

i think you should do an experiment where you feed half and leave half to be natural foundings and then when the first generation workers show up try to take measurements to see if feeding them actually improved the workers size, also probably good to count egg batches to see if the extra protein promotes additional egg laying