26 replies to this topic

[Barristan]

As i said, you err on the side of caution, especially when (1) weighing the risks against the fact the keeping of such ants is only a hobby, and (2) there are many many other non-invasive ant species that are to be honest much more attractive. Most invasive ants are tiny and pretty much indistinguishable to laymen, and would not impress anyone not into ants.
 
I'll also point out native ant species so far in many of the invaded areas have not been able to, as you put it, "fight back", since many have been nearly exterminated wherever the invasive has dominated, with the resulting disruption in the environment.
 
I noticed that store actually has OUT OF STOCK notices for the invasive species like S. invicta and the like..so it may be that the outcry by Dr. Alfred Buschinger and Alex Wild had an effect.

 
The owner of the shop changed it is now run by the son of the former owner as far as I know.
 
That's my point species can't adapt that quickly be it in terms of fighting back (that's why invasive species are so dangerous) but also in terms of adapting to completely different climate. An ant species from the tropics or subtropics won't have enough time to adapt to moderate climate with cold winters. This process takes hundreds or even thousand years and requires a lot of colonies. That's why I still think that the chance that a tropic ant species can establish here in Germany is so tiny that I don't have to worry about it. I mean do you worry about the world being hit by an asteroid all the time? I mean there is still a chance that could happen tomorrow.
 
But everybody can have a different opinion I accept that. I'm still waiting for all the black painting to happen but even 18 years after the first ant store opened not a single ant species has been introduced due to ant trading or ant keeping.

Edited by Barristan, March 15 2018 - 9:50 AM.

[BMM]

Keeping an invasive species isn't going to contribute to their spread. You're not affecting the environment unless you're transporting, selling, or releasing them. Basically, so long as you're responsible, there's nothing wrong with it.

[kalimant]

 

The owner of the shop changed it is now run by the son of the former owner as far as I know.
 
That's my point species can't adapt that quickly be it in terms of fighting back (that's why invasive species are so dangerous) but also in terms of adapting to completely different climate. An ant species from the tropics or subtropics won't have enough time to adapt to moderate climate with cold winters. This process takes hundreds or even thousand years and requires a lot of colonies. That's why I still think that the chance that a tropic ant species can establish here in Germany is so tiny that I don't have to worry about it. I mean do you worry about the world being hit by an asteroid all the time? I mean there is still a chance that could happen tomorrow.
 
But everybody can have a different opinion I accept that. I'm still waiting for all the black painting to happen but even 18 years after the first ant store opened not a single ant species has been introduced due to ant trading or ant keeping.

 

 

 

Actually, adaptation and even evolution can occur fairly quickly....there are some studies that point to that.

Also, there are microclimates within an area that might allow invasive species to survive...for example, cities tend to be warmer in general than the surrounding area. Barcelona has snowfall every couple years or so, but that didn't stop a P. megecaphala colony cluster from expanding outdoors in that city. 

As I said, always err on the side of caution when the possible negatives are so much greater than the positives. It just makes sense.

 

And yes, we can agree to disagree on that,  although i believe there are legal limits (or at least ethical) to what can be sold, so the argument is really moot.

Edited by kalimant, March 15 2018 - 11:06 AM.

[Serafine]

 

 

Ants are a heck of a lot smaller than crabs as a rule.

Crab larva disagrees.

 

Wasn't specifically speaking of larvae. lol. But say a full size crab, compared to a colony of ants, crabs are larger. Kind of a pointless point though. Invasive is none the less invasive.

 

Crab larvae are microscopic and spread through the oceans by the TRILLIONS. There are SO much more crab larvae than ants, in fact crab larvae are a massive part of the oceans' zooplankton. And they can travel for thousands of miles with the ocean currents, sweet-water crab larvae can even get over floodgates and dams by latching to the feathers of water birds - and even a single pregnant crab female can give birth to hundreds of thousands of these little critters. They are WAY more difficult to control than ants and can multiply at absolutely insane rates when placed into an ecosystem that isn't prepared for them.

Edited by Serafine, March 15 2018 - 11:19 AM.

[sgheaton]

I find the Crab Larvae cute... 

[gcsnelling]

I for one am a firm believer in planting native plant species.

[Naturenut1233]

Yeah our state is doomed as far as invasive crabs. The invasive ones are kinda cute though. Unfortunately both Green and Asian crabs are vastly reducing the numbers of Rock crabs. You don't see them very often now. I was told they were putting nets around the areas that had the Asian crabs to prevent them from spreading. I just laughed at that nonsense. I am aware of the massive numbers of eggs the crabs release. I'd bet most of those babies never make it to adulthood due to all the zooplankton feeders, but because of the shear numbers released, it's almost certain they are here to stay. However humans are pretty good at hunting species to extinction so if everyone along the coast decided to crab hunting once a week for life, that might drive down some numbers, assuming that harvesting Rock crabs was limited. I'm afraid I'm no help there though as I don't eat shellfish..... Probably is easier for the state to eliminate invasive ants though with the way crabs reproduce.