30 replies to this topic

[Zeiss]

So I actually emailed UPS about this saying,

 

and he responded (don´t know why he said rare) saying, 

 

 

Didn´t know what to think of it after you guys said it was illegal, so I thought I´d post it. 

Just because a private shipping company said you can ship it, doesn't mean it isn't breaking the laws.  They are just stating they are capable of shipping them, not that it is allowed.

[gcsnelling]

UPS and USPS policy has absolutely no bearing on the matter.

[Hunter]

why does this seem to come up every week?

[sgheaton]

why does this seem to come up every week?

Humans be dumb. 

[Studio]

 

why does this seem to come up every week?

Humans be dumb. 

 

No man, these are very legitimate questions, it's because there doesn't seem to a very clear answer and it's even more of a headache for people in California. This is a very secretive hobby in the states and we would all love to see it grow and obtain species that are hard to collect in certain areas. Especially for those that live in areas that are dominated and overrun by pest species (e.g. fire ants, crazy ants, argentine ants etc...). Not all of us have the time and/or want to drive 3-6 hours away just to buy a native queen or colony from someone then drive back. I've been on and off with this topic for years now and even I'm not 100% sure.  According to the links and emails provided by members on the forum and from reading a few articles from the USDA; It looks like it's legal to ship native species within state borders with exceptions such as states like CA. It will be regulated sure, but to ship it over state borders, you will have to have a permit, end of story. This is what I obtained from my knowledge over the years, but don't take my word for it.

 

Even when someone provides proof that it's legal in their specific state, someone comes up and yells "IT'S ILLEGAL PERIOD!" and now we all see the word "ILLEGAL" it instills fear. Now no one wants to do it because we're so afraid technicality and the government spying on you to see if you're shipping Solenopsis to your neighbor. This hobby has it's growth stunted while other exotic insect keeping hobbies continue to prosper. Although I can understand everyone's hesitation, because many exotic invertebrates require specific housing requirements and will die if they escape into our air conditioned homes or out into our freezing winters. Ants on the other hand are more resilient and prolific and no one wants another fire ant epidemic. 

Edited by Studio, June 10 2018 - 2:16 PM.

[drtrmiller]

Even when someone provides proof that it's legal in their specific state, someone comes up and yells "IT'S ILLEGAL PERIOD!" and now we all see the word "ILLEGAL" it instills fear.

 

Welcome to Formiculture.com, the only antkeeping hobbyist forum where more little boys and girls grow up wanting to be ant cops, as opposed to myrmecologists.

[nurbs]

This is a very lucrative hobby in the states and we would all love to see it grow and obtain species that are hard to collect in certain areas. 

 

 

 

Don't know how long you've been doing this, or what you mean by "lucrative", but there is very little profit in selling ants legally. Regardless if it is shipped or not.

 

Unless you are collecting hundreds of thousands of dealate queens with no workers and shipping or selling them bulk to someone within the State (what could this buyer possibly do with them?), or you are illegally shipping them out of State borders or to another country, there's little money to be made.  

 

I rear and sell native colonies with the State of CA. The amount of gas, equipment, supplies, food, and countless man hours spent making nests and feeding and caring borders on the ridiculous. I only do it because it's a hobby that pays for itself. 

[Studio]

 

Even when someone provides proof that it's legal in their specific state, someone comes up and yells "IT'S ILLEGAL PERIOD!" and now we all see the word "ILLEGAL" it instills fear.

 

Welcome to Formiculture.com, the only antkeeping hobbyist forum where more little boys and girls grow up wanting to be ant cops, as opposed to myrmecologists.

 

It's never ending 

 

 

This is a very lucrative hobby in the states and we would all love to see it grow and obtain species that are hard to collect in certain areas. 

 

 

 

Don't know how long you've been doing this, or what you mean by "lucrative", but there is very little profit in selling ants legally. Regardless if it is shipped or not.

 

Unless you are collecting hundreds of thousands of dealate queens with no workers and shipping or selling them bulk to someone within the State (what could this buyer possibly do with them?), or you are illegally shipping them out of State borders or to another country, there's little money to be made.  

 

I rear and sell native colonies with the State of CA. The amount of gas, equipment, supplies, food, and countless man hours spent making nests and feeding and caring borders on the ridiculous. I only do it because it's a hobby that pays for itself. 

 

Sorry I was so in the heat of the moment I typed the wrong word. I was studying about business before I came here to post lol. I meant to type "secretive". I didn't come into this hobby looking to make money off it either, but for the pure joy of raising ants.

[Mortamir]

Well one thing I have noticed with USPS,UPS and Fed Ex is that if you are not familiar with transportation systems and hubs you could very easily ship out of state even if your destination city is within the state. I recently shipped a package to Vancouver WA from Ravensdale WA. During it's normal route it went through Portland Oregon.

This is normal for a lot of carriers anytime you have a large city next to a state border.

[Batspiderfish]

Well one thing I have noticed with USPS,UPS and Fed Ex is that if you are not familiar with transportation systems and hubs you could very easily ship out of state even if your destination city is within the state. I recently shipped a package to Vancouver WA from Ravensdale WA. During it's normal route it went through Portland Oregon.

This is normal for a lot of carriers anytime you have a large city next to a state border.

 

That could be part of why the PPA makes no distinction that mailing ants in-state is permissible, but I'm definitely not going to get roped into this argument again.

[StopSpazzing]

Check my signature. Answers all legal questions regarding shipping inside USA, response is from USDA.gov. I am actually approved by USDA.gov to ship live animals, but the process is not straight forward and requires a permit approval per shipment. Each approval could take up to 18 months. I'm in the process of testing the system to see any further issues that could come around. Oh, also, you need to ship Next Day Air->UPS which makes sense. But it's extremely costly. Expect about $80+ per package.

 

If anyone wants to pay for the shipping cost and ants to help me test it out, contact me. Can start the permit process.