11 replies to this topic

[RayBuc]

I have some questions, as an extreme newbie who doesn't even have an ant yet. The questions feel kind of stupid, but I can't find the answers... SO

Why not hibernate ants in the Freezer for part of their hibernation? tts colder and darker than the fridge, usually they will be desterbed less. I don't know how cold freezers get, but how cold can ants withstand during hibernation-For how long? i know its below freezing, but not by how much.

Why do ants require insects as part of their diet (at least)? can't they get protein from other sources and be just fine?? Can they eat cooked meat? FreezeDried insects? 

Are there any size test tubes that most ants can fit well in for founding? I am looking at buying my first test tubes, and I have no idea what size to get-

Use test tubes they say, It'll be fine they say... wouldn't something like this work equally well or better for a large cacophonous P. queen to found in? Or maybe this? (credit to tarheel ants and Aus Ants) Or a homemade one, made out of cork/wood between glass slides?

 

 

Also, Where do you get your cotton that you use? I know I have more questions like these, but I can't think of them right now. I will post more as they come to me. 

[Ants_Texas]

1. A freezer is likely too cold for most ants. Ants in a fridge wouldn't really care if you opened it, as long as you're not knocking stuff around. 

2.  Ants require insects for their brood to develop. Worker ants require little protein, and mostly run on sweets.

3. 16x150mm tubes are good for small queens. If you expect to catch some Camponotus, those need 20x150mm. 

4. Personally, I'd start a Camponotus colony in a tube. After they get 10 workers, I'd move them into an AntsAustralia Nest Size 2 or a Type 2 Mini Hearth.

[noebl1]

My understanding is Camponotus (which do indeed survive some very very cold temperatures), do so because glycerol is being created within their bodies.  However I'm not sure any of the hobbyist here yet know how to replicate the time/circumstances needed for success in a freezer with this.  There have been a few people here that have said they kept their ants outdoors / unheated garages during winter, but I am unsure if the success or details on these.

 

This looks like a potential source for details, but does have a cost associated with it:

Cold hardiness of the overwintering black carpenter ant

http://onlinelibrary...1188.x/abstract

Edited by noebl1, January 21 2018 - 2:18 PM.

[Reevak]

1. The freezing temperature of the freezer is often times too cold for many species and it will most definitely freeze the water in the test tube (which will leak into the ants side of the tube and freeze around them as well).
2. (in addition to what Ants_Texas said) You can use alternative protein sources like cooked meat and freeze dried insects, but the ants don't always accept those food sources. Some ants are more picky than others but insects are much more likely to be accepted in general.

3. (Ant_Texas pretty much has this covered)

4.  Other small nests (like the ones you mentioned) can work for founding queens as well, but test tubes are much cheaper and work for founding queens and young colonies. You don't want to have to buy one for every queen you plan on catching and you don't know if every queen you plan on catching will turn into a successful colony. Using test tubes is like a safe bet (with some exceptions like Fungus Growers)

[Kevin]

Freezers dehumidify the air, and have little air circulation which results insufficient hibernation conditions. I use 16x150mm glass test tubes purchased at LCM Lab and I prefer test tubes over small nests as I think they are the best founding method for colonies. I even use test tubes now for large colonies, as they seem to be far superior than most formicaria to store colonies. Ants do not require insects, however insects are generally most appropriate for a protein source. Also, please refer to the Formiculture rules:

 

"7. Post in legible, coherent English, without excessive use of emoticons, slang, chat acronyms, or instant messenger shorthand."

 

"cacophonous P." isn't a real species. We can pretty much assume you mean Camponotus pennsylvanicus, but note the proper syntax for species names. Italicization, full species name and correct spelling. This forum wants to attract professional people.

Edited by Kevin, January 21 2018 - 3:34 PM.

[Mettcollsuss]

I would recommend staying away from Tarheel Ants products. In one of my experiences with them, they didn't cure their products properly and they released toxic gases that killed off half the colony.

 

Other people have also had products arrive damaged, or made wrong, and THA wouldn't give them refunds.

[Jonathan21700]

Freezers are definitely too cold. 

Edited by Jonathan21700, January 22 2018 - 3:52 PM.

[Serafine]

Depends on the species. Camponotus herculeanus can survive -30°C (and some smaller ants like Temnothorax are similarly resilient).

[dermy]

The fridge works fine for Camponotus, just don't freak out if the queen doesn't wake up for the first few days after waking them up. It happens all the time and she will usually wake up after 3 days max.

 

I would keep the colony in a test-tube for the first year, [don't be afraid to entice them to move if the tube gets dirty into a clean new test-tube] but I find newbies tend to move colonies too soon and end up with ants piling garbage everywhere causing mold problems. Also Camponotus grow really slowly, esp. on their first year.

Edited by dermy, January 22 2018 - 5:26 PM.

[RayBuc]

Thank you everyone for your help! Really, every post was helpful. @Kevin I will change my habits and eventually learn to spell! I didn't realize that using just P for this species was kind of taboo because I have seen it done before. That must be the younger generation. Also, Italic species names? That is a new one for me... 

I do hope to catch Camponotus, but I will catch anything I find. That is why I want a good all-around tube. It sounds like 20x150 would be my best bet for my area (Thank you @Ants_Texas).

I think I want to experiment with incubating ants using a freezer, since nobody does. I have some ideas to make it work for the species who can withstand the freeze. especially since I now know to watch out for ventilation and humidity problems.

Thank you for all the tips as well! I am trying to learn from professionals to do it the right way. Because I want to be able to experiment with ant's care and potentially have an impact on the community... That is why I question everything instead of just doing it the same way everyone else does.

Edited by RayBuc, January 23 2018 - 12:22 PM.

[Kevin]

I can only guarantee that you will kill any ant you put in a normal freezer over an extended period of time. Some freezers can be dialed down, but to the extent of proper diapause temperature varies on the freezer.

[Loops117]

You can use anything you want. If you had a large amount of colonies, you could pack them into a empty cooler and put them in a shed or garage for the winter. I personally bought a wine cooler for hibernation. It gives me more control over temps.

 

For founding colonies, i agree with Kevin. Test tubes are far superior to any alternate solution. They're not the easiest to work with long term, so have a nest or back up tubes (with a way to connect them) is key.

The reason tubes are so fail safe is because they allow a keeper to literally forget about the colony for an extended period of time. If i'm not mistaken, the longest lasting water supply in any store brand formicarium is like 2 or 3 weeks. Regardless, it could be a month or longer and it still would not touch the security a test tube setup offers. I to have switched over to test tube setups for my colonies instead of farms. Not because they don't work as well, but because the ease of use.

Standard size i prefer is 16x150. 16 is big enough for any queen you catch in michigan. It's also going to be deep enough to have plenty of hydration. Just make sure you plan out space according to the queen you've captured. My general rule of thumb is the offer 2x the length of your queen. Since we generally don't have an option on tube diameter to choose from, we don't really need to worry about head height. At 16mm, that will fit any size queen. If you have tiny sp, you will have PLENTY of space for hydration. And trust me, you'll want plenty of space.

 

Ants do not require insects, but it is a regular part of their diet. They require protein which they get from the insects they eat. They also get it from other food sources, but it's generally dead or dying insects.

 

Also, i highly suggest you read a couple links on the forum. 

Ant keeping for beginners

Preferred food by species

A list of handy links

 

These will help you out tremendously, as they've helped me along with many others out in the past.