53 replies to this topic

[AnthonyP163]

2-2-20

 

The Formica subsericea are doing great, their brood is growing and they are healthy. The Formica dulotic/parasitic queen has growing brood as well but not as much.

 

Here's pictures from a few days back.

 

dulotic/parasitic colony:

 

Formica subsericea colony:

[ForestDragon]

I just took my formica out today, filled em up on sugar water, hope they do good this year got 2 species, subsericea and incerta

[AnthonyP163]

2-21-20

 

The Formica subsericea have gotten about a dozen workers and have a ton of pupae. It is a huge amount for a queen that I caught just last summer. 

 

The Formica parasite has gotten more larvae and has a pupae. I do think her workers are actually doing work and caring for brood so she might just be a parasite. As soon as a worker dies I will determine the species.

 

Here's the subsericea colony

 

Here's the parasite colony. Notice in the second picture the parasitic worker is grabbing some eggs and caring for them. 

[AntsBC]

Both of the parasitic queens you caught in this journal are slave raiders.  Whether or not the alive one is facultative; I do not know.  Multiple ant keepers (example) have noticed Formica pergandei queens produce a smaller, care taking caste in the first few generations; maybe that is what is going on here. 

 

I have a hypothesis that the facultative vs. obligate argument is actually more of a regional specificity then a species thing.  On Formica pergandei's wiki page, AntWiki does claim that all member species of the F. sanguinea group are facultative.  The citation for this statement is not clear, but it is possible that it was James Trager who wrote that, as his citation is listed on the paragraph below.

Edited by AntsBC, February 22 2020 - 10:25 AM.

[RushmoreAnts]

And I'm assuming these slave raiders can at least get along without hosts? Otherwise Anthony here is going to have his hands full once the hosts die off.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

I have a founding Formica Subsericea queen (I think that's how you spell it) and was wondering if you had any advice Anthony. Anything is appreciated! Thank you! 

[Nare]

And I'm assuming these slave raiders can at least get along without hosts? Otherwise Anthony here is going to have his hands full once the hosts die off.

As far as I understand, it's complicated.

 

Some species in the same group as this species can do just fine without a constant supply of host workers. Take F. aserva, which, I've heard, has been found to be able to found with hosts and then do fine later on without them once the colony has been established. However, in certain regions, aserva have been found to be able to found without any hosts at all, in a semi-claustral manner. This lends credence to ABC's theory that facultative / obligate founding varies depending on geographical location.

 

From what I've heard, the only species in this group that has been proven to be an obligate slave raider, meaning they cannot survive without regular host worker injections, is F. subintegra. As far as I'm aware, all of the other species in this group are still up in the air as to whether they are facultative, meaning they don't need constant host pupae, or obligate, meaning they do (except, of course, for aserva). I'm currently raising a F. wheeleri queen, who's just gotten her first nanitics. The test now is to see if these nanitics engage in any sort of brood care - this should indicate that Formica wheeleri are facultative slave makers, as far as I understand.

 

So the short answer is that we'll just have to wait and see. It is probably impractical to attempt to keep an obligate slave raider, so in the case the keeper would be out of luck with these queens, unfortunately.

[AnthonyP163]

Both of the parasitic queens you caught in this journal are slave raiders.  Whether or not the alive one is facultative; I do not know.  Multiple ant keepers (example) have noticed Formica pergandei queens produce a smaller, care taking caste in the first few generations; maybe that is what is going on here. 

 

I have a hypothesis that the facultative vs. obligate argument is actually more of a regional specificity then a species thing.  On Formica pergandei's wiki page, AntWiki does claim that all member species of the F. sanguinea group are facultative.  The citation for this statement is not clear, but it is possible that it was James Trager who wrote that, as his citation is listed on the paragraph below.

This queen doesn't resemble F. pergandei. She was caught in Rhinelander, WI (far north), and the keeper who caught her gave her to me with a few hosts. The area has lots of Formica ulkei but they don't resemble Formica ulkei so that seems unreasonable. I will try to get a worker as soon as one dies and determine species then. Thank you for sharing this with me, I will try to add more pupae from the subsericea colony just in case. 

[AntsBC]

 

Both of the parasitic queens you caught in this journal are slave raiders.  Whether or not the alive one is facultative; I do not know.  Multiple ant keepers (example) have noticed Formica pergandei queens produce a smaller, care taking caste in the first few generations; maybe that is what is going on here. 

 

I have a hypothesis that the facultative vs. obligate argument is actually more of a regional specificity then a species thing.  On Formica pergandei's wiki page, AntWiki does claim that all member species of the F. sanguinea group are facultative.  The citation for this statement is not clear, but it is possible that it was James Trager who wrote that, as his citation is listed on the paragraph below.

This queen doesn't resemble F. pergandei. She was caught in Rhinelander, WI (far north), and the keeper who caught her gave her to me with a few hosts. The area has lots of Formica ulkei but they don't resemble Formica ulkei so that seems unreasonable. I will try to get a worker as soon as one dies and determine species then. Thank you for sharing this with me, I will try to add more pupae from the subsericea colony just in case. 

 

 

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't saying that your queen was necessarily F. pergandei, I was just trying to put it out there that slave raiders have been known to raise a care taking caste in the first few generations, to make sense of the behavior you have noticed.

Edited by AntsBC, February 22 2020 - 8:25 PM.

[ANTdrew]

Update? Any general tips for Formica - they’re the most nervous ants I’ve ever dealt with.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

same

[RushmoreAnts]

Yes..... they’re very........ antsy.

[Ants_Dakota]

I have a formica colony that is almost 2 years old and has maybe 10 small larvae and 6 workers now(they had 9). Is that a regular amount?

Edited by Ants_Dakota, March 27 2020 - 8:27 AM.

[RushmoreAnts]

Isn’t it more like a year?

[TennesseeAnts]

I have a formica colony that is almost 2 years old and has maybe 10 small larvae and 6 workers now(they had 9). Is that a regular amount?

No, that is below average. What are they being kept in, and fed?

[RushmoreAnts]

I’m pretty sure it’s less than a year old. I agree, however, that this is way below average. Even a year old colony should be at least 20-30 workers. Perhaps not hibernating them had something to do with it?

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

yeah, they don't need hibernation, but it is suggested...

[RushmoreAnts]

No hibernation is like a human getting no sleep. Ever.

[TennesseeAnts]

yeah, they don't need hibernation, but it is suggested...

Hibernation is a necessity with northern Formica. 

[RushmoreAnts]

In my experience, Formica do the worst of any ant without hibernation.