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Help Report Mikey Bustos For Releasing Invasive Species

invasive pharoh ants illegal

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#41 Offline gcsnelling - Posted January 15 2018 - 4:47 PM

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Fine. Established. He caused the environment no harm. I have kept them and invicta. Killed the pharaohs ants when I didn’t want them any longer. Fire ants I keep until the colony dies out. I am not agreeing with what he did, but he doesn’t deserve this much venom


The ant keeping community unfortunately is full of self-righteous individuals who feel the need to police others halfway around the globe through the Internet, in places which they know nothing about, with people they've never met, while influencing other armchair detectives into a global lynch mob because it makes them feel good about themselves in the comfort of their own home.

This thread needs to die. It does not belong on Formiculture.
I agree. Thread shouldn't have been created. Not that I don't think it's still wrong. I guess the only real concern is that how many people are now gonna release every colony they have. But yeah, we should drop this and for those who wish to further discuss it go elsewhere.

 

I disagree, this thread absolutely should have been made. When you have someone doing something as irresponsible as this and publicizing it, that person needs to be  called out and brought into the daylight. If he was any sort of responsible keeper he would not have released them an made a public spectacle of it. He should  pull the video as well.


Edited by gcsnelling, January 20 2018 - 5:47 PM.

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#42 Offline T.C. - Posted January 15 2018 - 4:49 PM

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Fine. Established. He caused the environment no harm. I have kept them and invicta. Killed the pharaohs ants when I didn’t want them any longer. Fire ants I keep until the colony dies out. I am not agreeing with what he did, but he doesn’t deserve this much venom


The ant keeping community unfortunately is full of self-righteous individuals who feel the need to police others halfway around the globe through the Internet, in places which they know nothing about, with people they've never met, while influencing other armchair detectives into a global lynch mob because it makes them feel good about themselves in the comfort of their own home.
This thread needs to die. It does not belong on Formiculture.
I agree. Thread shouldn't have been created. Not that I don't think it's still wrong. I guess the only real concern is that how many people are now gonna release every colony they have. But yeah, we should drop this and for those who wish to further discuss it go elsewhere.
I disagree, this thread absolutely should have been made. When you have someone doing something as irresponsible as this and publicizing it, that person needs to be  called out and brought into the daylight. If he was any sort of responsible keeper he would not have released them an made a public spectacle of it. He further pull the video.

That's true. Doesn't sound like much is changing though.
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#43 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted January 15 2018 - 8:05 PM

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Honestly, I do think reporting him to the Goverment is a bit much for one colony, now that I've sat and thought about it. However, I still think he should be held accountable for it. I'm more worried about the people he rubbed off on all around the globe. I do respect, and accept his apology. We'll just see what the future has in store.



#44 Offline TennesseeAnts - Posted January 15 2018 - 8:22 PM

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This would be like releasing Solenopsis invicta in let's say... Washington. I was very disappointed with Mikey after I watched that video. :ugone2far:
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#45 Offline Spamdy - Posted January 15 2018 - 8:42 PM

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This would be like releasing Solenopsis invicta in let's say... Washington. I was very disappointed with Mikey after I watched that video. :ugone2far:

Actually that wouldn't make a difference considering they'll die after the first winter. (But I get your point)


Edited by Spamdy, January 15 2018 - 8:43 PM.

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All my colonies are dead. 

 

 Except:

  

  Pogonomyrmex barbatus

  Pheidole obscurithorax

  Pheidole morens


#46 Offline TennesseeAnts - Posted January 19 2018 - 11:47 AM

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And I just found out M.pharaonis has invaded Washington :mad: . 


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#47 Offline anttics - Posted January 19 2018 - 12:31 PM

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I will realise ants I care for in the future. ex. Veromessor Andrei are struggling to survive in San Fernando valley mountains. I would release my colonies there to help them. I might even kill Argentine ant nest that are close to my release place. i think if you want to realise a colony it has to be on their natural environment. or environment where invasive species have kicked them out from. Even if invasive ants live close by. I would kill the colony. Mikey sent.the wrong message.

Edited by anttics, January 19 2018 - 12:32 PM.


#48 Offline DJoseph98 - Posted January 19 2018 - 7:32 PM

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Hi, I understand all of you are quite upset about what Mikey has done and the example he has set for the younger generation. I am personally not someone to release an invasive species but I do struggle with understanding certain taboos in the hobby as well as avoiding them (if only by sheer ignorance).
Here are a few questions I personally have: If you keep several queens to ensure one is fertile, is it ethical to release the others even if they are as well or allow them to establish them release them, or just euthanize the group? What method of doing those would be considered humane? If your colony is producing alates, is allowing the alates to fly outdoors to mate also considered unethical (only concerning native/naturalized species) or is this a responsible manner to help add to the gene pool the ant keeper unavoidably altered by capturing (a) fertile queen(s)?
I am not a moron nor a child, I am a student who has taken an interest in the hobby and is aware of the presence of his own ignorance in certain matters. I am sure there are others like me who need information like this readily available when things seem vague or in special context.
Many of you are outraged by what has happened, but I think this provides an opportunity to have educated discussions on what is legal, ethical, and moral in the antkeeping hobby. I am not condoning verbal warfare on the forum, just open discussion to allow individuals like me to at least get the information and experience of others to answer these questions, going for both Formiculture members and AntsCanada followers. At the very least, this will help prevent mistakes from occurring rather than fussing over spilled milk.
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Current Colonies

1 x Camponotus nearcticus (Monogynous), 1 x Crematogaster cerasi (Monogynous), 1 x Formica cf. subsericea (Polygynous Two-Queen), 1 x Formica cf. pallidefulva (Monogynous, single worker),

1 x Lasius cf. americanus (Pleometrotic Founding, now Monogynous), 1 x Tetramorium immigrans (Monogynous)

 

Current Founding Units

1 x Formica cf. subsericea (Monogynous)

 

Up-To-Date as of 9/15/2020

 


#49 Offline RayBuc - Posted January 20 2018 - 5:11 AM

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Hi, I understand all of you are quite upset about what Mikey has done and the example he has set for the younger generation. I am personally not someone to release an invasive species but I do struggle with understanding certain taboos in the hobby as well as avoiding them (if only by sheer ignorance).
Here are a few questions I personally have: If you keep several queens to ensure one is fertile, is it ethical to release the others even if they are as well or allow them to establish them release them, or just euthanize the group? What method of doing those would be considered humane? If your colony is producing alates, is allowing the alates to fly outdoors to mate also considered unethical (only concerning native/naturalized species) or is this a responsible manner to help add to the gene pool the ant keeper unavoidably altered by capturing (a) fertile queen(s)?
I am not a moron nor a child, I am a student who has taken an interest in the hobby and is aware of the presence of his own ignorance in certain matters. I am sure there are others like me who need information like this readily available when things seem vague or in special context.
Many of you are outraged by what has happened, but I think this provides an opportunity to have educated discussions on what is legal, ethical, and moral in the antkeeping hobby. I am not condoning verbal warfare on the forum, just open discussion to allow individuals like me to at least get the information and experience of others to answer these questions, going for both Formiculture members and AntsCanada followers. At the very least, this will help prevent mistakes from occurring rather than fussing over spilled milk.

I also would like to know what people do with the extra queens! Formicaria are not cheap, I can't buy one for each queen even though I would like to... As far as alates, this group encourages people to let them free to breed with local nests as long as it is a native species.



#50 Offline Antking117 - Posted January 20 2018 - 5:20 AM

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Hi, I understand all of you are quite upset about what Mikey has done and the example he has set for the younger generation. I am personally not someone to release an invasive species but I do struggle with understanding certain taboos in the hobby as well as avoiding them (if only by sheer ignorance).
Here are a few questions I personally have: If you keep several queens to ensure one is fertile, is it ethical to release the others even if they are as well or allow them to establish them release them, or just euthanize the group? What method of doing those would be considered humane? If your colony is producing alates, is allowing the alates to fly outdoors to mate also considered unethical (only concerning native/naturalized species) or is this a responsible manner to help add to the gene pool the ant keeper unavoidably altered by capturing (a) fertile queen(s)?
I am not a moron nor a child, I am a student who has taken an interest in the hobby and is aware of the presence of his own ignorance in certain matters. I am sure there are others like me who need information like this readily available when things seem vague or in special context.
Many of you are outraged by what has happened, but I think this provides an opportunity to have educated discussions on what is legal, ethical, and moral in the antkeeping hobby. I am not condoning verbal warfare on the forum, just open discussion to allow individuals like me to at least get the information and experience of others to answer these questions, going for both Formiculture members and AntsCanada followers. At the very least, this will help prevent mistakes from occurring rather than fussing over spilled milk.

I also would like to know what people do with the extra queens! Formicaria are not cheap, I can't buy one for each queen even though I would like to... As far as alates, this group encourages people to let them free to breed with local nests as long as it is a native species.

 

Extra queens? put them in a test tubes and keep them in there, you do not need a formicarium for a while usually. If after the first year you still have to many queens sell the established queen, or if it illegal to sell or let em go just kill them.  :)


Edited by antking117, January 20 2018 - 5:21 AM.


#51 Offline noebl1 - Posted January 20 2018 - 7:10 AM

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I also would like to know what people do with the extra queens! Formicaria are not cheap, I can't buy one for each queen even though I would like to... As far as alates, this group encourages people to let them free to breed with local nests as long as it is a native species.

 

I've been pretty lucky; in previous years there's been enough MA anters I've been able to give queens/colonies away to other members on here.  I live in the woods, so tons of Camponotus and Temnothorax; something someone in more urban areas may not have as easy access too.  Likewise I've never seen a P. imparis here, and I've had another member give me one.  Michigan is a bit bigger than MA, so may not be as practical.   I suspect after the amount of Lasius I caught this Fall flying, I'm either going to have to give them away, break down and join GAN, or cull a bunch in the freezer.



#52 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted January 20 2018 - 9:11 AM

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Why catch more than you need in the first place? Something I cannot understand in many keepers. I don't take more than 3 queens from a species usually.



#53 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted January 20 2018 - 9:31 AM

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Hi, I understand all of you are quite upset about what Mikey has done and the example he has set for the younger generation. I am personally not someone to release an invasive species but I do struggle with understanding certain taboos in the hobby as well as avoiding them (if only by sheer ignorance).
Here are a few questions I personally have: If you keep several queens to ensure one is fertile, is it ethical to release the others even if they are as well or allow them to establish them release them, or just euthanize the group? What method of doing those would be considered humane? If your colony is producing alates, is allowing the alates to fly outdoors to mate also considered unethical (only concerning native/naturalized species) or is this a responsible manner to help add to the gene pool the ant keeper unavoidably altered by capturing (a) fertile queen(s)?
I am not a moron nor a child, I am a student who has taken an interest in the hobby and is aware of the presence of his own ignorance in certain matters. I am sure there are others like me who need information like this readily available when things seem vague or in special context.
Many of you are outraged by what has happened, but I think this provides an opportunity to have educated discussions on what is legal, ethical, and moral in the antkeeping hobby. I am not condoning verbal warfare on the forum, just open discussion to allow individuals like me to at least get the information and experience of others to answer these questions, going for both Formiculture members and AntsCanada followers. At the very least, this will help prevent mistakes from occurring rather than fussing over spilled milk.

 If you keep several queens to ensure one is fertile, is it ethical to release the others even if they are as well or allow them to establish them release them: Yes, I think this is completely fine (so long as they're native to your area), because those extra alates you caught would've had a shot at founding a colony if you didn't catch them. As for established colonies, I think this is fine if they're again, native, and as long as they aren't a super dominating species in your area. 

 

 If your colony is producing alates, is allowing the alates to fly outdoors to mate also considered unethical (only concerning native/naturalized species) or is this a responsible manner to help add to the gene pool the ant keeper unavoidably altered by capturing (a) fertile queen(s): I would say releasing alates is a good practice, as long as the alates in question belong to a balanced ant species in your environment, and not a dominating/invasive ant species. The reason I think this way is because the queen that you caught could've made it to this point in the wild, so I feel giving back to the environment for capturing a queen is good practice.

 

By the way, when I say "dominating species", I'm referring to an ant species that IS native, but commonly gets all of the food first. A good example of this would be Solenopsis geminata in some of the southern United States. It is native, but it's usually a decisive victory for who gets the food, in a battle of Solenopsis geminata and Camponotus pennsylvanicus, per se.



#54 Offline mbullock42086 - Posted January 20 2018 - 12:29 PM

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Fine. Established. He caused the environment no harm. I have kept them and invicta. Killed the pharaohs ants when I didn’t want them any longer. Fire ants I keep until the colony dies out. I am not agreeing with what he did, but he doesn’t deserve this much venom

I've had an M pharaonis infestation in the past, they are NOT harmless.  They are vicious little killers and are capable of wiping out all small vertebrate life in areas they've been established.   For years they would invade and kill everything i tried to rear, they'd attack me in my sleep, i'd wake up with them clustered on my face, biting at the corners of my eyes.  Killed my hamster when i was a kid :(


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#55 Offline Superant33 - Posted January 20 2018 - 12:52 PM

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Agreed. They are not harmless. They have attacked me in my sleep as well. They have cost me hundreds of dollars worth of food. In most places, eradication would be a blessing. However, if I would have released one of my captive colonies in my apartment, it would have made no difference. My apartment is infested. Mikey lives in an area where they are established. They shouldn’t be released, but it won’t mske a difference. No ant keeping enthusiast should release a non native species. Mikey should be made aware of that. But the hate for releasing it in an area where it is already thriving is unwarranted.
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#56 Offline mbullock42086 - Posted January 20 2018 - 12:58 PM

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Agreed. They are not harmless. They have attacked me in my sleep as well. They have cost me hundreds of dollars worth of food. In most places, eradication would be a blessing. However, if I would have released one of my captive colonies in my apartment, it would have made no difference. My apartment is infested. Mikey lives in an area where they are established. They shouldn’t be released, but it won’t mske a difference. No ant keeping enthusiast should release a non native species. Mikey should be made aware of that. But the hate for releasing it in an area where it is already thriving is unwarranted.

But the hate for releasing it in an area where it is already thriving is unwarranted


 lolwut.  "It's okay, they're already a problem, anyway"

you do know the ants he released were infested with mites, right?

#57 Offline NikolaBale - Posted January 20 2018 - 4:39 PM

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Common guys have a little understanding i know that releasing invasive sp is not good it does not help the environment in any way but rly he just released a queen and a few hundred workers,in perspective these numbers compared to the already existing number of m.pharaonis 

is insignificant its not like he is breeding them and then releasing them over and over again jezz



#58 Offline Superant33 - Posted January 20 2018 - 5:23 PM

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It's okay, they're already a problem, anyway"

you do know the ants he released were infested with mites, right?[/quote]

#59 Offline Superant33 - Posted January 20 2018 - 5:25 PM

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Perhaps I wasn’t clear that no one should release non native species. I thought I expressed that. Anyway, this is my last post on this topic.
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#60 Offline Martialis - Posted January 20 2018 - 5:52 PM

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Edited by Martialis, May 9 2019 - 3:26 PM.

Spoiler





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: invasive, pharoh ants, illegal

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