84 replies to this topic

[Works4TheGood]

I've read that it's very difficult to breed ants in captivity because they're missing the natural cues that colonies need from their environment in order to create and release alates.  So my question is this:  has anyone ever TRIED to breed ants in a controlled, semi-outdoor environment?  My thinking is that success may be obtainable if the setup were in a carport or other similarly exposed outdoor structure.  Has anyone else tried this or have any insight?

 

One of the reasons why I'm interested in breeding ants is because we could develop a strain of domesticated ants that are easier to care for and tolerate our synthetic conditions better.  Perhaps we could even create a breed that are willing to cohabitate nicely with other species.  The possibilities are pretty wild, actually.

 

Thanks in advance for all who read this post, and most especially, to those who are willing to share their insight.

[Serafine]

Depends on the species. Black crazy ants for example work fine if the setup is large enough for them to create satellite colonies.

[Nincadaguy]

I remember Hawaiiant posted about how he managed to make fire ant(?) alates artificially mate. So its not crazy to think if were are talking about Solenopsis

[Alabama Anter]

I remember Hawaiiant posted about how he managed to make fire ant(?) alates artificially mate. So its not crazy to think if were are talking about Solenopsis

I mated one invicta queen about a month ago. She has 20-40 workers.

[Works4TheGood]

 

I remember Hawaiiant posted about how he managed to make fire ant(?) alates artificially mate. So its not crazy to think if were are talking about Solenopsis

I mated one invicta queen about a month ago. She has 20-40 workers.

 

 

So what's in the secret sauce?

[Batspiderfish]

Ant colonies have maturity cycles which are longer than most of the animals which humans breed -- you're looking at 3-5 years between each generation. I am not sure how you would measure or select for behavioral traits. Probably not impossible, but definitely not practical. Usually the only reason this topic comes up is because somebody new caught unmated males and females from the same colony and are looking to somehow correct this mistake. Having said that, this thread ought not to become a hub of misinformation for desperately new hobbyists, so try to make sure to indicate what is proven and repeatable from what is anecdotal.

[Works4TheGood]

Ant colonies have maturity cycles which are longer than most of the animals which humans breed -- you're looking at 3-5 years between each generation. I am not sure how you would measure or select for behavioral traits. Probably not impossible, but definitely not practical. Usually the only reason this topic comes up is because somebody new caught unmated males and females from the same colony and are looking to somehow correct this mistake. Having said that, this thread ought not to become a hub of misinformation for desperately new hobbyists, so try to make sure to indicate what is proven and repeatable from what is anecdotal.

You said, "... you're looking at 3-5 years between each generation."   I don't understand.  Don't colonies start producing alates once they've achieved a comfortable size?  That seems very do-able in a year or two with the right species and very good care.

[Batspiderfish]

 

Ant colonies have maturity cycles which are longer than most of the animals which humans breed -- you're looking at 3-5 years between each generation. I am not sure how you would measure or select for behavioral traits. Probably not impossible, but definitely not practical. Usually the only reason this topic comes up is because somebody new caught unmated males and females from the same colony and are looking to somehow correct this mistake. Having said that, this thread ought not to become a hub of misinformation for desperately new hobbyists, so try to make sure to indicate what is proven and repeatable from what is anecdotal.

You said, "... you're looking at 3-5 years between each generation."   I don't understand.  Don't colonies start producing alates once they've achieved a comfortable size?  That seems very do-able in a year or two with the right species and very good care.

What species are you talking about? Especially in temperate regions, you are going to be keeping ants for a long while before they start producing alates.

[Works4TheGood]

I'm only working with pavement ants right now because everything else is in hibernation.  Below is a colony with a queen I caught in early July.  This is my strongest colony.  Most of the workers are shown, but there are also a good number in the tube right next to it.  I couldn't even guess at the colony size.  So how much larger does it need to be in order to start producing alates?

 

http://www.formicult...0218-154234995/

Edited by Works4TheGood, February 18 2017 - 1:10 PM.

[Canadian anter]

Works for the good, Pavement ants start producing alates at ~100,000 workers (I think). Also, while male alates are easy to produce, it has been observed that female alates are usually produced at the end of the colony's lifetimes in many species. I think I read an article featuring Camponotus pennsylvanicus and they found that Camponotus pennsylvanicus usually only produced female alates during the last 3 years of the colony's lifetime.

[Nincadaguy]

 

 

I remember Hawaiiant posted about how he managed to make fire ant(?) alates artificially mate. So its not crazy to think if were are talking about Solenopsis

I mated one invicta queen about a month ago. She has 20-40 workers.

 

 

So what's in the secret sauce?

 

 

If I remember correctly, he had to fridge the female alates to slow them down, then took them out and introduced males. He might of had to hold them in place

[Works4TheGood]

Works for the good, Pavement ants start producing alates at ~100,000 workers (I think). Also, while male alates are easy to produce, it has been observed that female alates are usually produced at the end of the colony's lifetimes in many species. I think I read an article featuring Camponotus pennsylvanicus and they found that Camponotus pennsylvanicus usually only produced female alates during the last 3 years of the colony's lifetime.

Please, call me "Dan".

 

100,000 you say?  That's discouraging.  I've read a lot of articles saying that colonies can exceed 10,000, but I just can't do 100,000.  Could you please share where you learned this?  Maybe it could point me to different species for some hope?

[Works4TheGood]

Okay, let's be scientific about this.  A queen can't count how many workers she has, so how does she know whether or not it's time to start making alates?

[Serafine]

I'm pretty sure the queen doesn't decide that on her own. There's a lot of communication going on between her and the workers.

[Works4TheGood]

After doing some quick reading, I believe that the queen has nothing to do with deciding whether or not an egg becomes a worker or a princess (males might be different since they're formed from haploid cells).  Whether a worker becomes a worker or a princess depends upon how much food the larvae ingest.  So here's my hunch:  the queen can only produce so many eggs per day.  If the workers bring in so much food that there's a surplus even after feeding all the young, then they start to OVERFEED the larvae because there's nothing else they can do with the extra food, and so the larvae receive extra food and then become princesses instead of workers.  This would make sense from an empirical standpoint, since larger colonies would then be more likely to produce alates.   It also makes sense from a survival standpoint since producing alates too early could stunt or even reverse a colony's growth.  If someone can point to some documentation showing otherwise, please share it.

[dspdrew]

Very difficult, but not impossible. I have a friend who has bread Pogonomyrmex in captivity. He does it every year, and has even talked about it here before. I tried it, but never got any fertile queens.

[Works4TheGood]

Very difficult, but not impossible. I have a friend who has bread Pogonomyrmex in captivity. He does it every year, and has even talked about it here before. I tried it, but never got any fertile queens.

I'd love to be able to learn from your friend.  Could you please share the reference or one of his related posts?

[dspdrew]

Here (http://www.formicult...ity/#entry51340), I just gave his post its own topic.

[Works4TheGood]

Here's a related thread that's specific to leaf cutter ants: http://antfarm.yuku....ewtopic/id/2977. It says, ...

 

"Over the years many academics and research projects around the world have tried for many years to get captive leaf cutting ant colonies to reproduce. We have managed to " breed " Acromyrmex octospinosis in captivity. The colonies in question also exploded in population, going from colonies of about 400 in size to a roughly estimated 30,000. The time taken for the colonies to produce reproductives was also very quick, between 10 months and 16 months. This an amazing rate for Acromyrmex, as in the wild it would normally take a colony 5 years to reach maturity and then produce reproductives. By managing to " breed " captive colonies the research into captive breeding has to say the least opened up a few doors for us. Academics and research establishments around Europe are pestering us about how we have managed to discover ( by accident )captive breeding of a leaf cutting species. As i said earlier many people have (to say the least) dedicated their working lives to this subject, and we have managed it in 3 years. This is not a joke or a bogus message all of this is true. And we have proved that it works as we experimented with 10 colonies. What makes it more amazing is that the reproductives mated with mates from their own nest."

 

So, I have mixed feelings about this.

 

As an ant keeper, I've lost interest in the challenge of watching a colony grow in size.  The next hurdle is to see if I can breed them, and that opens up lots of interesting doors.

[Georgeev]

I thought of this in the past.My idea is that if we can put a lot of colonies of the same species in one big room and give them the perfect environment(temp,humidity etc. )Nuptial flights will occur.So I think we can breed ants.But i don't know if its possible (maybe is)breeding different species together or changing their looks(morphs)etc...This is very common in other pets like reptiles.But if breeding ants becomes a thing be sure that ant keeping will be a ton different

Edited by Georgeev, February 19 2017 - 1:30 AM.