50 replies to this topic

[dean_k]

Has anyone tried feeding Phoenix worms to ants?

 

http://www.supercric...enix_worms.html

 

I am thinking of getting those instead of mealworms because they come in a nest and are advertised to be maintenance free. I am unwilling to culture mealworms simply because I have only one colony.

[Crystals]

Phoenix worms are actually soldier fly larvae. 

 

Here is what I found:

Housing and substrate:
Pheonix worms/Black soldier flys do best in tall housing as opposed to shallow housing so things like a vase, cookie jar or a small bathroom works well. The flys should have sticks and twigs in the top of the enclosure to allow for resting and sleeping.
Substrate should be made up of old leaves, compost and if possible animal manure (such as horse and cow manure) (to avoid the smell leave the manure out to dry then just moisten a small part of the underneath for them to eat).

Food and water:
The larvae will eat old leaves and animal manure if kept as compost. They may also eat vegetable scraps if given the option and will gut load of fruits.
They don't generally need water however some people like to hang up leaves of lettuce for the adults to drink water from. I will add here, whilst the Flies do have a mouth they are not made for eating, it is purely for drinking, so there is no need to give them food.

Temperature and humidity:
Phoenix worms do best at 15-20C however the flys are best at 12-15C, the best way to maintain these temps is to use a tall enclosure, keep it in a cool-ish room and have a heat mat on the bottom for the worms so only a little amount of the heat rises to the top for the flys but all of them are kept at the right temperature. Humidity isn't very important at all - best kept below 50% however the pupae's will appreciate being taken out and put into a more humid (60-70%) tub until close to "hatching". 

Breeding:
Hardly anything is needed for breeding, just male + female flies and somewhere for them to lay eggs. The best thing for this is to get a mug, put some organic compost into it and add water, compress it as much as possible and leave it there for a minute or two and compress again, keep doing this until you can't compress it anymore, once done turn it out of the mug and put into the enclosure on the floor or get some animal manure and leave it out on the bottom, you are more likely to have more sucess with the animal manure. And then probably the most important thing - room! The flys need to be able to fly for a foot or two as they mate whilst flying, the good thing is they don't a massive amount of room as it is over in with seconds.  Males die shortly after mating, females live about a week longer.

Life Cycle:

Adult/Fly: Black Soldier Flies are 15-20mm long and have dusty-grey wings. Males have a bronze coloured abdomen and females have 2 segements of the "abdomen" that are red in colour.

Egg: Eggs are 1mm long and are laid in clusters of 300-500 and have a 96% hatch rate.

Larvae/Pheonix Worms: Larvae of the Black Soldier Fly otherwise known as the Phoenix worm are small, plump worms that go through a series of "instars" before turning to pupae, the last instar being a red/brown colour. Usually growing up to about 18mm they make a good livefood.

Pupae: The pupa develops within the darkened skin of the last larval instar. The pupa is roughly 1/3 the length of the puparium.

Generaly maintanence:
Nothing really is needed apart from if feeding veggies removing any that are old/mouldy. Just keep them fed and happy and all should be fine.

 

Alternative substrate:

In the wild, they can colonize virtually anything organic, from carcasses to animal waste, but they tend to prefer decaying vegetation/fruit that has begun to ferment.
1 cup - instant oats
1 cup - bran or wheat
Half cup - baked, grated/blended veggies
2 TBSP - honey
1/3 cup - boiled, extremely fine cut or blended cooked meats
1 cup - rice puffs

 

If you have a rabbit, add some rabbit poop as well.

 

The Smell

The neat thing about soldier flies is that once they colonize a food source, the grubs drive off any other species of flies from laying their eggs by releasing pheremones. This same pheremone calls out to more adult flies, eventually providing you with an unlimited source of eggs as long as adults are out. A pheremone laced mixture of grubs and compost from a mature colony can then be used to seed other buckets/composters, immediately calling in fresh egg-laden females. Once a food source is colonized, there is virtually no smell unless you stick your nose directly into the composter. Even then, the smell isn't bad, it's merely quite earthy and strong.

[dean_k]

I ordered it. It's 10 bucks for a bowl (150 larvae). I've been paying 9 bucks for Zoo-med mealworms that go bad in less than a week.

 

I can even use the adult fly as food for ants, so I think it's a win-win situation for me.

 

P.S. They are shipping from a location near you, Crystals.

[dermy]

I've heard of BSFL, I wanted to do some hardcore composting with them, but not right now.

 

Tell us how you get with them!

[drtrmiller]

From what I read previously, they need sufficient heat and a rather large enclosure—usually one that is outside—to culture properly.  Maybe I am remembering this wrong?

[dermy]

I think it really depends on their use, the larger enclosures [usually outdoors] are for Composting, since they need a large SA [Surface Area] and people try to get their numbers extremely high, like in the 10-100 K range! So they can compost a lot, since there is usually a 4-7 month growing and operating period, depending on where you are.

 

As for culturing them, I've seen it done in small kritter keepers, just make sure you tape the holes and add in smaller ones with a toothpick or something.

[dean_k]

I came across this thread. https://www.beardedd...p?f=76&t=191525

 

But I am not really looking to culture them. This is just a temporary solution to my ant colony's protein supply. I have only one colony of 15ish ants.

 

I will certainly play with them just to get a feeling but they are to die in my hands as far as I am concerned.

[dermy]

Oh okay... They will die by your hands

[AntsAreUs]

I might be mistaken for a bot fly but can't these lay eggs on you?

[dean_k]

From my research, they lay eggs in tree bark or something similar. Ex: The gap between cardboard pieces. They don't lay eggs on flesh.

 

Edit: Take a look at this link, http://www.blacksold...ng.com/home/faq

Edited by dean_k, December 15 2014 - 2:26 PM.

[Crystals]

 

P.S. They are shipping from a location near you, Crystals.

 

I have flightless fruit flies, which are fine for me.  I also culture mealworms, aquarium snails, and have access to the science lab's dubai roach population.

I do not want to deal with the smell of breeding flies.  I do not think these range as far north as my location naturally.  In summer I tend to catch quite a variety of insects (and freeze some for winter).

 

I also tend to buy crickets and freeze them until I need them.  Freezing would work for phoenix worms, and other maggots.  Other maggot species are quite easy to cultivate in summer (outside in the compost, or in a remote location like a patch of forest somewhere).  I know of quite a few people in the aquarium hobby who have a setup outside to raise maggots in summer using wet dog food, veggie scraps, etc.  Even some who used freezer burnt or spoilt meat (away from the house). 

I have accidentally cultured a few thousand maggots when I put fish guts in the garbage can (a week before they picked it up...).  I would recommend a less smelly medium (although I don't think you can get any smellier than 8 pounds of fish guts in a closed garbage that reached 30C every day for a week...) 

[dean_k]

I mentioned the location because I found it interesting. That's all.

Edited by dean_k, December 15 2014 - 3:18 PM.

[Crystals]

I mentioned the location because I found it interesting. That's all.

No worries, I didn't know that either. 

 

But I still find mealworms cheaper. 

[dean_k]

Mealworms are - much - cheaper. There is no doubt about that.

 

I am paying 9 something for 100 larvae that has a good chance of coming to me with around 20 alive according to the feedback on the Internet.

 

100 mealworms are a buck and half from the same website.

[Crystals]

I just go to the pet store if I need extra.  Shipping to my location is killer, besides if I get them in person, I know they are all alive.

I use two rubbermaid bins to breed mealworms, my larger Camponotus colony can eat 1-2 larger mealworms a day (not counting any of my other colonies).  I stuck them in the furnace room and they do very well.

 

It is easy to gutload the mealworms who have been moved to the "fattening bin", and thus vary the ants diet a bit.

[dean_k]

The only pet store around my area is Pet Valu and they don't treat live mealworms. I googled around and the nearest one is at least 30 minutes away, so I prefer shipping.

 

Black fly maggot does seem to have few advantage over mealworms. One is that they don't care what they eat, from fermenting fruits to manure. Second is that they leave very little odor once they consume their food. Another advantage seems to be that they tolerate varying humidity levels as long as temp is within their favorite range.

Edited by dean_k, December 15 2014 - 3:57 PM.

[Mads]

I ordered it. It's 10 bucks for a bowl (150 larvae). I've been paying 9 bucks for Zoo-med mealworms that go bad in less than a week.
 
I can even use the adult fly as food for ants, so I think it's a win-win situation for me.
 
P.S. They are shipping from a location near you, Crystals.

This would be Bugorder (www.bugorder.com) I am assuming? They don't actually produce them there, they import them and redistribute.

Mads

[dean_k]

No, I posted the link in the first post.

 

It's http://www.supercricket.ca

 

And yes, it's imported. They were clear on that. Meanwhile, I found a mealworm breeder in Toronto from Ebay.

Edited by dean_k, December 15 2014 - 8:18 PM.

[Mads]

Oh, didn't think super cricket was still in business. They are located in Prince Albert if I remember right. Personally I would just raise fruitflies for the ants. They are easy to produce and excess flies can be frozen and fed later. But, let us know if the ants like the Phoenix worms.

Mads

[dean_k]

They were quick to reply to my e-mails within few hours and sent out the order today, printing the shipping label as early as this morning. So, I assume they are not quite dead yet.

 

I am not looking to culture the worms right now. I am going to put them in a fridge and let them live as long as I can.

 

I will culture mealworm or fruit flies next year when I will get more colony. I just have one small colony right now and I can't justify culturing anything right now.