21 replies to this topic

[gcsnelling]

As pet keepers of any sort we must be vigilant. This new attack on the aquarium hobby is a dangerous step in the direction leading to the loss of our rights to keep fish and other pets.

 

https://www.reef2rai...ry-under-siege/

[Connectimyrmex]

No offense (and please don't start a flame war), but they prove a good point. For my two years in Hawaii, I only saw two yellow tangs (the species was decimated on Oahu by the aquarium trade).
Still, though, I love the hobby and support it. There should be restrictions, but it still should be legal.

Edited by Connectimyrmex, November 19 2017 - 6:58 PM.

[Batspiderfish]

Uh oh, here come the big bad scientists to maybe impose resource management on us all!

Edited by Batspiderfish, November 19 2017 - 8:52 PM.

[Serafine]

Honestly you don't need to keep every stupid exotic fish species in an aquarium.

Edited by Serafine, November 19 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[Reacker]

This can only be a good thing. Look at how much unregulated stupidity exists in the much small but growing hobby of keeping ants, then imagine how much worse it must be in the vastly larger and more cash flush aquarium hobby.

[gcsnelling]

I agree that there must be some regulation but it must be intelligently designed and implemented. In addition the other problem with regulations of this sort is once they get a foothold in one industry it is going to be just a short time before the animal rights activists move on to other groups as well.

[dspdrew]

This can only be a good thing.

 

Wouldn't have expected anything else from you.

 

I can only imagine what life in America is going to look like 100 years from now. We'll all be the ones in cages, confined to a life of staring at a wall with nothing to do in the name of our own safety and salvation of the planet.

[Reacker]

They don't call me, "absolutely despicable" for nothing.

[CNewton]

I know many of you see this as a good thing, and maybe some restrictions are, but this -will- impact more than just aquarists. In my years in the hobby, I've seen so many fish and plants become illegal to keep that I, myself, were keeping. While this article focuses on wild-caught fish, it is becoming a common theme for more and more restrictions. In this case, Yellow Tangs, one of the flagship marine species, is headliner. Tangs, like many species, are becoming available as captive bred fish. Without having the wild caught to provide the understanding and science to breed them, how will they become safe from humans? Might I remind you, Elephants and Rhinos also have "strict regulations" on capture and hunting.

 

This is important to this forum, though, because you all have wild-caught ants. I know, I know, slippery slope. Still, what happens when your ants are illegal to capture and keep? How will affect the science? How will that affect the understanding of how they effect the environment? Wild fish were studied by hobbyist, just like ants are studied by you. Aquarists learned to breed clownfish and tangs. Ant hobbyists will learn the secrets of ants. 

 

Keeping reefs safe is important. Protecting species is important. Keep in mind, that groups looking to make keeping completely illegal could be detrimental to not just the aquarium hobby, but you can also kiss reptile, amphibian, and exotic insects good-bye.  

[Batspiderfish]

Hobbyists who claim they are advancing science and conservation shouldn't have any problem with a scientific assessment of their environmental impact. Harvest of Hawaiian Yellow Tang is a Hawaiian issue, not a hobbyist issue.

Regardless, pet-keeping hobbies thrive in spite of restrictions on trade, with more competent and conscientious hobbyists.

[sgheaton]

 

 

We'll all be the ones in cages

We all already are, buddy. 

[Batspiderfish]

I gaze into the abyss, and the abyss gazes back.

Edited by Batspiderfish, November 20 2017 - 6:46 AM.

[Connectimyrmex]

Harvest of Hawaiian Yellow Tang is a Hawaiian issue, not a hobbyist issue.

Regardless, pet-keeping hobbies thrive in spite of restrictions on trade, with more competent and conscientious hobbyists.

It's more of a supply-demand issue.

[Batspiderfish]

Harvest of Hawaiian Yellow Tang is a Hawaiian issue, not a hobbyist issue.

Regardless, pet-keeping hobbies thrive in spite of restrictions on trade, with more competent and conscientious hobbyists.

It's more of a supply-demand issue.

The point being that Hawaii has a right to manage their own fisheries. The luxury "demand" for these fish does not supersede the rights of those responsible for managing them, where the yellow tang exists in the real world. The piece is a big, long appeal to emotion.

Edited by Batspiderfish, November 20 2017 - 8:20 AM.

[noebl1]

Some observations here as I kept reef tanks for awhile (talk about an expensive and time consuming hobby...)  I bought a lot of fish/corals from other members I met on Boston Reefer Society which was well put together, though as with anything had it's drama at times (not unlike here, but significantly larger and obviously more regionalized.)   Also bought quite a bit from small family run pet shops, brick and mortar, click and mortar, and even a guy who'd net catch tropical reef fish in Long Island that would get stranded in the gulf stream during the summer.  I embarrassingly think I spent over $175 on a single fish, just to have it manage to find a tiny gap in my grill covering and die 6mos later.  It was a legit money pit that I regret wasting so much money and animals on as I learned.  On the bright side, was able to give away the majority of my animals before I ended it.

 

The vast majority of reef fish were not from private breeding as many were too complex or unknown how to breed, especially in commercial demand or quantities.  So unless you get clownfish or sea horse, reasonable high chance the fish you bought was wild caught.  For curiosity sake I just checked out Live Aquaria who now have a bit more captive bred fish, and vast majority are still clownfish, or the species that people don't ideally want.

 

As I mentioned above, the BRS I think helped a lot with creating a secondary market, as being a more main stream hobby, people were constantly getting in/out of the hobby.  I bought many fish/corals/algae/supplies from people either looking to get out of the hobby, or change direction and fish/coral they had was incompatible.  Some marine fish live several years in ideal conditions (i.e. not jumping out), so purchasing a second or even third hand fish wasn't unheard of at all.  Also corals, which is a hot topic right now due to bleaching, had *very* high secondary sellers market due to people being able to grow them in their tanks.  The prices were still high ($40-$60 for a 1-2" piece of coral that could take years to reach any size), however the odds of survival of one propagated from another reefer was higher than a random store purchase. 

 

As with many hobbies/pets, not everyone does research, or even knows about these clubs/groups to join and learn.  It's not unusual for someone to see a movie from Disney, want a salt water tank, buy fish, anemones or corals uneducated, and they die.  Not sure there's an easy fix to that.

Edited by noebl1, November 20 2017 - 9:02 AM.

[Connectimyrmex]

 

 

Harvest of Hawaiian Yellow Tang is a Hawaiian issue, not a hobbyist issue.

Regardless, pet-keeping hobbies thrive in spite of restrictions on trade, with more competent and conscientious hobbyists.

It's more of a supply-demand issue.

 

The point being that Hawaii has a right to manage their own fisheries. The luxury "demand" for these fish does not supersede the rights of those responsible for managing them, where the yellow tang exists in the real world. The piece is a big, long appeal to emotion.

 

True.

The sad thing is that the fisheries DO have rules. It's just that some people would rather get money than play it safe.

[Mettcollsuss]

Well, looks like this thread took a turn in the opposite direction then it was intended to. But I agree, we are kind of overfishing.

[Salmon]

It's pretty dumb to name an article about regulation of wild caught fish "the end of the age of aquariums". The vast majority of aquarists keep captive bred freshwater fish.

 

In some cases harvesting animals from the pet trade can actually be a good thing. Cardinal tetras are difficult to breed in captivity compared to other species, so an industry centered around capturing them employs thousands of people. The relatively harmless activity of removing small quantities of fish makes leaving their habitat intact more profitable than destroying the rivers and surrounding rainforest. 

[gcsnelling]

You may have noticed that when I titled this I included a question mark. Having said that this is a ban that was pushed for by activist groups and not scientists or fisheries people. Although the initial target is salt water, once these things get started it can easily come to impact the fresh water industry as well before spilling over to other areas of pet keeping as we.. As I said reasonable regulation is not a bad thing but it needs to be based on good science and not knee jerk reactions by activist groups with no other agenda than to destroy the entire pet keeping industry including cat and dogs.

 

It's pretty dumb to name an article about regulation of wild caught fish "the end of the age of aquariums". The vast majority of aquarists keep captive bred freshwater fish.

 

In some cases harvesting animals from the pet trade can actually be a good thing. Cardinal tetras are difficult to breed in captivity compared to other species, so an industry centered around capturing them employs thousands of people. The relatively harmless activity of removing small quantities of fish makes leaving their habitat intact more profitable than destroying the rivers and surrounding rainforest. 

[Salmon]

 

You may have noticed that when I titled this I included a question mark. Having said that this is a ban that was pushed for by activist groups and not scientists or fisheries people. Although the initial target is salt water, once these things get started it can easily come to impact the fresh water industry as well before spilling over to other areas of pet keeping as we.. As I said reasonable regulation is not a bad thing but it needs to be based on good science and not knee jerk reactions by activist groups with no other agenda than to destroy the entire pet keeping industry including cat and dogs.

 

 

 

 

I was referring to the article, not the topic you made about it.

 

Still, it's a bit of a slippery slope to say that banning the collection of fish that have been documented to be in decline will have an impact on responsible areas of the pet trade.