61 replies to this topic

[Batspiderfish]

There are a couple reasons why you can't move colonies across state lines, even if you believe they are the same as the native ants nearby.

 

Firstly, just because two ants share the same name does not mean that they are the same ant. Linnean taxonomy is a tool under constant revision because our understanding of how things are shaped and how they live regularly improves; we discover nuanced differences among species or other taxa that reveal previously undescribed, entirely new species. Such organisms are often hidden right under our noses, our taxonomy having not advanced far enough to tell them apart.

 

All organisms are experiencing evolution. In any given species, there are numerous genetic lineages being put under different tests, in distinct environments. Given enough separation, these lineages may eventually become species of their own, and this process is in various stages at any given time. The escape or release of foreign ants of the same species has the potential to erase speciation by either out-competing their cousins or reverting genetic changes. From a conservational standpoint, foreign ants of the same species carry much of the same consequences as exotic ants.

 

And lastly, the general public cannot be trusted to competently identify their ants. Even the legal ant marketplaces regularly fail to identify the ants which they are selling. They just don't know how.

The laws are there for a reason. They were drafted by the USDA in response to annual $7.5+ billion drain caused by invasive ants, the concern for public health, as well as the ecological devastation wrought by exotic ants on numerous levels. So it would be foolish to advise a member of this forum to break these laws.

Edited by Batspiderfish, October 10 2017 - 8:06 PM.

[Connectimyrmex]

Simple Answer: NEVER EVER DO IT!
If you really want to take an ant, freeze a specimen and bring the dead specimen with you.

 

Also, how the floop do I change my account signature it still has my list of pets from back in Hawaii

Edited by Connectimyrmex, October 10 2017 - 7:40 PM.

[Mettcollsuss]

I'll admit that I have broken this rule a couple times, but only if I'm 100% sure that the queen I caught is native to where I live. Example: at my summer camp in Michigan, I caught a few Tetramorium sp. E queens, a few F. subsericea, an Aphaenogaster fulva, a Lasius alienus, and a Tapinoma sessile, all of which are native to my state.

Edited by Mettcollsuss, October 12 2017 - 3:56 AM.

[Mettcollsuss]

Simple Answer: NEVER EVER DO IT!
If you really want to take an ant, freeze a specimen and bring the dead specimen with you.

 

Also, how the floop do I change my account signature it still has my list of pets from back in Hawaii

Actually, I was wondering how you add the account signature.

[Batspiderfish]

I literally just explained why that is not OK, but I was forgetting that personal biases are much more important to conservation than law or science. I don't consider it good behavior for beginners to advocate breaking conversational law on this forum.

[Martialis]

It's in the profile section.  Click "edit profile," and there should be something on the left that says signature.

[Batspiderfish]

It's not in "My Profile", it's in "My Settings".

[ultraex2]

It is still illegal and you do need a permit.  Basically, what the permit does is you have to tell them what species you are moving from where and it lets you legally move them that one time.  If you need to move them again, you will have to re apply for a permit.  Here's some of the criteria they use for that: (The second link has a FAQ that may be helpful).

 

https://www.aphis.us...ites/ct_insects

 

https://www.aphis.us...ct_insects_faqs

 

A PPQ 526 permit is required for the importation, interstate movement and environmental release of most insects and mites that feed upon or infest plants or plant products, including agricultural crops, trees, shrubs, native plants, etc.

If you plan to import an exotic insect or mite, you will most likely be required to import the organism into an inspected containment facility. The following factors are taken into consideration when evaluating the level of containment required to receive imported insects and mites:

• whether the organism is indigenous to the U.S;
• whether the organism is indigenous to the area where you plan to move it;
• host plant availability;
• size and mobility of organism;
• life stage to be moved;
• number of organisms to be shipped; and
• whether you plan to maintain a colony or destroy them upon arrival. 

Edited by ultraex2, October 12 2017 - 8:06 AM.

[Connectimyrmex]

 

Simple Answer: NEVER EVER DO IT!
If you really want to take an ant, freeze a specimen and bring the dead specimen with you.

 

Also, how the floop do I change my account signature it still has my list of pets from back in Hawaii

Actually, I was wondering how you add the account signature.

I forgot how I did

I literally just explained why that is not OK, but I was forgetting that personal biases are much more important to conservation than law or science. I don't consider it good behavior for beginners to advocate breaking conversational law on this forum.

Uh, I'm against keeping ants from other states or regions. Who are you directing this to?

 

It's in the profile section.  Click "edit profile," and there should be something on the left that says signature.

 

It's not in "My Profile", it's in "My Settings".

Thanks guys. It didn't show up though

[Batspiderfish]

http://www.formicult...e&module=usercp
 
Signature is in a tab on the left.

 

Don't worry, I wasn't speaking in reference to you. I was only getting into a fit about people disrespecting environmental protection.

[Goldsystem]

It doesn't matter what opinion you have on the issue, it's illegal to ship ants or move ants over state lines.

[RhodyAnts]

Here's the predicament I'm in. I live in RI 100 ft from the MA border. I catch a queen ant (workers not illegal) in MA and take it home it's technically illegal yet if a queen from MA flies onto my porch and I catch it just fine. I'm not especially concerned about the technicalities of it. It should be more of a common sense thing.

[drtrmiller]

The law is imperfect, but it's still the law. Also, the law makes no distinction between queen ants and workers. The Secretary of Agriculture is responsible for enforcing it, and that's why permits are issued for shipping Pogonomyrmex workers used in children's ant farms, for example, but not for reproducing ants.

That said, it is astronomically unlikely that a person will cause harm to the environment by moving an ant a few hundred feet, crossing a state line in the process. There's nothing special about state lines except that they are the artificial lines referenced in the law. Ants cross state lines every day. They can't even read, and nobody bothers to tell them what they're doing is illegal.

[Reacker]

... nobody bothers to tell them what they're doing is illegal.

Ugh, yet another example of governmental incompetence.

[Serafine]

 

... nobody bothers to tell them what they're doing is illegal.

Ugh, yet another example of governmental incompetence.

 

They clearly need to build more walls (but I think the cost for Fluon would make the state go bankrupt - either that or Trump's tax reform (if it ever comes, although if it doesn't he might partially undermine the current system through presidential decrees because that's totally how non-despotic democratic countries do stuff...)).

Edited by Serafine, October 18 2017 - 7:36 AM.

[T.C.]

 

 

... nobody bothers to tell them what they're doing is illegal.

Ugh, yet another example of governmental incompetence.

 

They clearly need to build more walls (but I think the cost for Fluon would make the state go bankrupt - either that or Trump's tax reform (if it ever comes, although if it doesn't he might partially undermine the current system through presidential decrees because that's totally how non-despotic democratic countries do stuff...)).

 

 

This guy nows he lives in Germany, not america right?

 

[Serafine]

Yes, we have some experience with "strong leaders" and their decrees americans are obviously lacking.

Edited by Serafine, October 18 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[Hunter]

so i got a kenyan sand boa sent to me but i can't get a ant sent, that makes sense

[CNewton]

 This is more of a logistical post than legality. I feel this law is broken. Legally, Ants cannot be transported across state borders. It's easier to regulate. Really, though, the law could be made more specific.

 

Watching these forums, I've learned quite a bit. Solenopsis invicta is regulated county-by-county in Texas. But, people can sell S. invicta, say, in Virginia, to counties not infected with them, thus introducing a non-native ant to more territory. Ok, I don't know if invicta are in Virginia, I don't live there. I see posts about Trachymyrmex in the Pine Barrens of Long Island. I live in Western NY. Totally legal for me to road trip down and buy or catch some queens! Ethical? Probably not. They are not native to my region, just my state.

 

What I'm saying, hypothetically, is maybe regional or native boundaries would be more reasonable. If I'm moving to PA and want to bring my Lasius colony, fine. If I want those Trachymyrmex, that should be a legal problem unless I plan on moving to Long Island.

Again, this is my head thinking outside the proverbial (state-border) box. Moving ants across lines is still illegal.

[CNewton]

Kenyan sand boas are highly unlikely to become invasive, especially in Maine..