65 replies to this topic

[FeedTheAnts]

Nathant2131, on 15 Jul 2017 - 1:23 PM, said:

I never used GAN or even thought about using it, but thanks for convincing me otherwise in the long run. I wouldn't want to be involved in such an unmoderated, now shady-looking insect-selling site whether I'm breaking their rules or not. Or even if they do fix this.

Why? if you are selling ants through GAN legally then why should you care what other people are doing, I think it is important to state that GAN gets no money through its farmers, you would not be giving them any financial support at all. And saying you still wouldn't be a part of it even if it was fixed is absurd.

[Serafine]

Actually GAN used to get a 10 dollar fee from every purchase (and in some countries may still get it) and it just recently got removed because the number of sellers became to high for them to handle (not sure if that counts just for NA or the entire world).

 

Also as far as I know transactions still run through the AntsCanada GAN system (might be wrong there, the passages on their official GAN page seem to be highly outdated) which means that if any of their sellers break US laws by selling Solenopsis invicta out of the RIFA quaranteen they are directly involved.

Edited by Serafine, July 16 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[Canadian anter]

Guys, remember that GAN is a form of advertisement for AC. It's made so people know that they can get local, overpriced and misidentified ants through a very popular site, thus increasing the popularity of the site and hobby. Thus, the demand for overpriced formicaria also goes up.

[BMM]

Serafine, on 16 Jul 2017 - 7:19 PM, said:

Actually GAN used to get a 10 dollar fee from every purchase (and in some countries may still get it) and it just recently got removed because the number of sellers became to high for them to handle (not sure if that counts just for NA or the entire world).

 

Also as far as I know transactions still run through the AntsCanada GAN system (might be wrong there, the passages on their official GAN page seem to be highly outdated) which means that if any of their sellers break US laws by selling Solenopsis invicta out of the RIFA quaranteen they are directly involved.

 

Actually, AC wouldn't be liable in these cases. Their terms and conditions specifically state the following: "Ensure that the selling of local ants within the GAN Farmer’s area is legal." Therefore the seller is taking responsibility for determining the legality of any sale. It's the same principle that prevents Formiculture from being liable for any illegal trades that happen on the site, because the terms and conditions specifically forbid illegal transactions.

[Antking117]

Has anyone informed Mickey of this thread? It might be polite to allow him to put forth his defense and maybe take some of the complaints you all have and put it to good work!

[Shareallicu]

I would never buy from someone who states, "unidentifed ant" of any kind.   For all I know, they are just workers lol

 

Unidentifed Queen ant might be better, but I would still not buy....  I like to know what I am buying

 

No one selling thru GAN in Washington state last I looked.  We don't have fire ants here... yet lol

[notmyidea]

Serafine, on 16 Jul 2017 - 7:19 PM, said:

Actually GAN used to get a 10 dollar fee from every purchase (and in some countries may still get it) and it just recently got removed because the number of sellers became to high for them to handle (not sure if that counts just for NA or the entire world).

 

Also as far as I know transactions still run through the AntsCanada GAN system (might be wrong there, the passages on their official GAN page seem to be highly outdated) which means that if any of their sellers break US laws by selling Solenopsis invicta out of the RIFA quaranteen they are directly involved.

 

I recently joined GAN because there is a lot of demand from my area for local queens (I guess people are too lazy or too busy to look for their own). I have to say it is a disorganized mess. I got several emails from them when I signed up saying that they would take a 10 dollar fee, then another one that they wouldn't, and then there is different information on the site (like you say, outdated). I think it is a great idea but definitely needs more management, organization, and oversight.

[Serafine]

I might by the way remind you of this incident:
http://www.formicult...hate-gamergate/

So stating that you have an official government permit to sell your local (australian) ants to other countries gets you banned from the AC-run facebook group, but selling one of the the worst creeping ecological disasters on the planet through the AC-run GAN store, potentially even breaking US law by doing so, is okay?

Edited by Serafine, July 19 2017 - 6:29 PM.

[Serafine]

Well, they've responded in their forums.

They didn't exactly postulate how they are going to fix it (I don't think they've fully understood the issue yet) but at least they know it, so let's see what comes from that.

 

In it's essence I consider GAN a really really great idea. It just needs a major cleanup, a reliable quality control and proper rules enforcement.

Also I think wanting people to appreciate their local ant species and trading RIFA doesn't really work together well.

Edited by Serafine, July 19 2017 - 7:17 PM.

[AntsCanada]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for bringing all of this to my attention. Actually, this post was helpful for us at AntsCanada. Because of this, we have made some adjustments to our GAN Project, to tighten things up and improve the quality and work of the GAN Project.

 

Starting today we are not allowing the sale of Solenopsis invicta (RIFA) anywhere in USA. If people are not sure if they have Solenopsis invicta, we will have them post a photo on the forum to help with an ID of their queen before we put them up on the GAN Project listing.

 

We will also be more careful not to add queens without workers to the GAN Project, as this was our policy from the start. 

 

From now on, as well, we will no longer allow the listing of Unidentified Queens. We will have applicants post photos of their ants in the forum ID Centre to at least get a genus name before we list them in the GAN Project.

 

Feedback like this is super helpful, so please continue to bring things like to our attention by emailing us at info@antscanada.com or emailing me directly mikey@antscanada.com . We also have some cool changes coming up for GAN Farmers and those buying from them soon. 

 

Ant love forever, guys!

 

Mikey

[Cameron C. Thomas]

AntsCanada, on 21 Jul 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

 

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for bringing all of this to my attention. Actually, this post was helpful for us at AntsCanada. Because of this, we have made some adjustments to our GAN Project, to tighten things up and improve the quality and work of the GAN Project.

 

Starting today we are not allowing the sale of Solenopsis invicta (RIFA) anywhere in USA. If people are not sure if they have Solenopsis invicta, we will have them post a photo on the forum to help with an ID of their queen before we put them up on the GAN Project listing.

 

We will also be more careful not to add queens without workers to the GAN Project, as this was our policy from the start. 

 

From now on, as well, we will no longer allow the listing of Unidentified Queens. We will have applicants post photos of their ants in the forum ID Centre to at least get a genus name before we list them in the GAN Project.

 

Feedback like this is super helpful, so please continue to bring things like to our attention by emailing us at info@antscanada.com or emailing me directly mikey@antscanada.com . We also have some cool changes coming up for GAN Farmers and those buying from them soon. 

 

Ant love forever, guys!

 

Mikey

 

 

This move is a step in the right direction. Good on you, Mikey.

[Serafine]

AntsCanada, on 21 Jul 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

Hi guys,
 
Thanks for bringing all of this to my attention. Actually, this post was helpful for us at AntsCanada. Because of this, we have made some adjustments to our GAN Project, to tighten things up and improve the quality and work of the GAN Project.
 
Starting today we are not allowing the sale of Solenopsis invicta (RIFA) anywhere in USA. If people are not sure if they have Solenopsis invicta, we will have them post a photo on the forum to help with an ID of their queen before we put them up on the GAN Project listing.
 
We will also be more careful not to add queens without workers to the GAN Project, as this was our policy from the start. 
 
From now on, as well, we will no longer allow the listing of Unidentified Queens. We will have applicants post photos of their ants in the forum ID Centre to at least get a genus name before we list them in the GAN Project.
 
Feedback like this is super helpful, so please continue to bring things like to our attention by emailing us at info@antscanada.com or emailing me directly mikey@antscanada.com . We also have some cool changes coming up for GAN Farmers and those buying from them soon. 
 
Ant love forever, guys!
 
Mikey

THANK YOU! YOU ARE AWESOME!

As a further improvement you could modify the GAN store page so people can post a picture of their colony with their entry (probably a reasonable small format like 800x600 pixels, or a spoiler tab that is collapsed by default and can be expanded by clicking on it to see the picture) because a picture says more than a thousand words and it would be an easy way to spot (and report) inappropriate nesting containers (or very unhealthy looking colonies).

 

Antlove forever!

[JackPearl]

Glad everyone sorted out the predicament!

[Nathant2131]

Thanks for sorting that out Mikey

[FeedTheAnts]

AntsCanada, on 21 Jul 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

 

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for bringing all of this to my attention. Actually, this post was helpful for us at AntsCanada. Because of this, we have made some adjustments to our GAN Project, to tighten things up and improve the quality and work of the GAN Project.

 

Starting today we are not allowing the sale of Solenopsis invicta (RIFA) anywhere in USA. If people are not sure if they have Solenopsis invicta, we will have them post a photo on the forum to help with an ID of their queen before we put them up on the GAN Project listing.

 

We will also be more careful not to add queens without workers to the GAN Project, as this was our policy from the start. 

 

From now on, as well, we will no longer allow the listing of Unidentified Queens. We will have applicants post photos of their ants in the forum ID Centre to at least get a genus name before we list them in the GAN Project.

 

Feedback like this is super helpful, so please continue to bring things like to our attention by emailing us at info@antscanada.com or emailing me directly mikey@antscanada.com . We also have some cool changes coming up for GAN Farmers and those buying from them soon. 

 

Ant love forever, guys!

 

Mikey

 

Absolutely wonderful

[BugFinder]

Antking117, on 17 Jul 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Has anyone informed Mickey of this thread? It might be polite to allow him to put forth his defense and maybe take some of the complaints you all have and put it to good work!

That guy is not capable of a reasonable, mature response to criticism.   

[Temperateants]

Serafine, on 14 Jul 2017 - 2:00 PM, said:

Remember when Mikey made his video where he shat all over antkeepers with exotic or even invasive ants?
Well... the AntsCanada GAN project is helping to spread invasive ants.
 
 
 
This needs to be dragged into the public, even if just because it's hypocrisy at the highest level.
 
The fact is GAN in it's current state is AWFUL.
Not only is there ZERO quality control in the oh-so-praised native species appreciation project with people selling "unidentified black ants" in plastic bottles, there's actually people KNOWINGLY SELLING INVASIVE ANTS THROUGH THE GAN SYSTEM.
Yes, you can (amongst others) buy red imported fire ants, the worst invasive ant species on the planet, through the GAN project. This gives "Global Nursery" a whole new meaning. And no, it doesn't matter that RIFA is already almost everywhere in Texas, this is a clear violation of GAN rules and obviously nobody at AntsCanada is giving a crap about it.
 
Here's an overview of the GAN rules (it's not like it's an entire book or a super complicated legal text, in fact it is pretty straight forwards and almost idiot-proof).

 

Quote

In joining the GAN Project as a GAN farmer I am required to:

1) Raise my ants to the best of my ability, providing the colonies with appropriate care and equipment. New queens are to be raised in the standard test tube setup or other proven method.

2) Inform AntsCanada immediately when a colony I am offering dies or if I have another colony available for sale

3) [Exclusivity] Never sell ants to anyone except through the GAN Project; this also applies to previous GAN Hosts (customers). Any and all ant purchasing transactions must be made through the GAN Project through AntsCanada.com unless express written permission is obtained from AntsCanada.com via email. Any inquiries the GAN Farmers may get personally or online must be directed to AntsCanada.com to make the purchase of the GAN Farmer’s colonies.

4) Ensure that the selling of local ants within the GAN FArmer’s area is legal

5) Always meet GAN Hosts in a public place with a companion for safety reasons when picking up the colony

6) Provide a current email address for communication, as well as a skype contact, and to let the AntsCanada.com team know if contact information changes

7) Always conduct myself professionally online and in person when working in association with AntsCanada.com, which includes online science or ant-related websites and when meeting GAN Hosts.

8) Make arrangements to meet with GAN Hosts locally

9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area

10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

 
 
So let's see how hard these rules are actually enforced on the GAN store front page.

 
Well... looks like Mexico doesn't have enough fire ants yet. Also who needs workers.

*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area
*10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

 

 

I always remind people that their AC is turned too high I they show interest in RIFA.

[AntsExodus]

I have found another problem about the AC GAN project that I would like to bring up. I have been a GAN farmer for Georgia for a year and almost 90% of the people that buy from me are young 6-12 year olds who want to start ant keeping. Luckily I do not give them fire ants and I usually make it cheaper for them. But there is another seller in Georgia who sells RIFA fire ants and Solenopsis Richteri also known as BIFA. I have talked to this person and most of the fire ants he sells are to little kids cause they are cheap. I was really frustrated about this because it was the kids first time ever keeping ants and it makes their ant keeping hard cause of how fast they grow and all the maintenance. They also are keeping ants for the first time so they could have escapes and might sting the kid and the kid could be allergic am very sad to announce that Ants Canada has not been doing what they said they where doing and this person has been selling fire ants crazy. He sold out 20 BIFA ant colonies in less than a month! If you guys want to know who he is he is the person from GAINESVILLE GA. Please take this to consideration cause this could be a major threat and problem to young kids trying ant keeping for the first time. 

[AntsExodus]

This person is also selling Solenopsis Invicta with only a QUEEN AND EGGS!

[Temperateants]

I've also sold colonies to small children, my Camponotus's are pretty aggressive and fast, which raises the same concerns as you brought up. Another thing that could help which would be some sort of "competency test" which determines if you have done your research, since customers usually ask "what do they eat" and "how to care for them". I'm by no means an expert, and trying to crunch down all the info into a quick exchange, I'm bound to miss something. There are like 10 minute tutorials that can help you with your first founding colonies. That's why I usually send an email detailing care and which purchases that are nessesary, e.g. Feeders, heating cables, test tubes ect. I also plug my youtube channel, so if I get a comment or subscription from the buyer's email then I know they read my basic guide.

Edited by Temperateants, April 27 2020 - 6:59 AM.