7 replies to this topic

[Scrixx]

I went on my first anting trip yesterday to the desert, Barstow, CA, and scored several queens, thanks Drew for pointing out a spot! I was not prepared for so many so some of them don't have a test tube setup and are living in a small container with a small piece of wet cotton at the moment. Thanks to the guys I talked to yesterday for tips. I only know some of these species because I looked up pictures of what Drew caught. There was one type that didn't look like any of what he caught.

 

Species Collected: 

Pheidole xerophila

Dorymyrmex insanus

Myrmecocystus navajo

Pogonomyrmex rugosus

Unknown species <- click for picture

 

So at this point I was brainstorming dirt setups since I've read Pogonomyrmex do better in them. I wondered what would be bad about simply filling a glass jar with moist soil and placing a P. rugosus in them. Someone pointed out the dirt would collapse if they dug out a section of it so there has to be a center piece to help hold up the soil. So two containers with one inside the other is the basic setup.

How about moisture?

 

I thought about using grout but that takes several days to cure. Hydrostone I'd have to order and it'd take days as well. Plaster of paris is known to melt from moisture. I then thought about just watering the surface of the dirt by either dripping water down the sides slowly or spraying the surface with a spray bottle. This raised a a few questions.

 

Would the dirt collapse because of watering it?

Is it better to have the moisture coming from the bottom of the soil like in Drew's dirt shack or above like rain?

 

How moist is good enough and to what depth of soil?

 

Another observation I noticed was that the soil was moist to only about 6 inches deep max. I know this because I dug out several founding chambers and I hit dry soil after 4-6 inches consistently. Both the M. navajo were dug out at 6 inches. By the time I left the surface soil had dried considerably from the heat. Since rain comes very rarely in the desert, I assume the soil will dry out completely at some point in time.

 

So is moisture actually a concern in our dirt formicariums for Pogonomyrmex?

 

Would Pogonomyrmex actually live just fine with a completely dry substrate?

 

Maybe it is as simple as moisture makes the soil easier to dig. Maybe rain triggers nuptial flights because the ground is finally malleable. I'm not sure that's why I'd like to have a discussion so people can chime in what they know from experience or reading.

 

Off topic: but how long does 6 inches of rain take to dry out in the desert?

[VoidElecent]

I think your unknown ant is Dorymyrmex flavus.

[gcsnelling]

Would not be D. flavus in the Barstow area. Depending on how small it actually is it is likely Forelius.

Edited by gcsnelling, July 11 2017 - 3:16 PM.

[JasonD]

Yes you will still need to worry about hydration. You aren't taking into account that even deserts have water tables - basically deep underground mud lakes in between the topsoil and the bedrock. So as the ants tunnel down, they will have more and more humidity. Not a ton in the desert, but it is still there. I'm not a hydrologist so take this with a grain of salt but those are the basics. 

For worrying about the ground collapsing. You need to pick a good combination of sand/clay/loam. More clay will mean less visibility for you but less chance of tunnel collapse when things dry out. 

For watering. Watering from above is easier but do it carefully so you don't flood the nest. Doing it from below usually requires more thought into nest design but will lessen the chances of a catastrophic flood. 

[Scrixx]

Would not be D. flavus in the Barstow area. Depending on how small it actually is it is likely Forelius.

 

Queen is 7mm long but she is a bit bulging since I gave her sugar water.

[Scrixx]

Yes you will still need to worry about hydration. You aren't taking into account that even deserts have water tables - basically deep underground mud lakes in between the topsoil and the bedrock. So as the ants tunnel down, they will have more and more humidity. Not a ton in the desert, but it is still there. I'm not a hydrologist so take this with a grain of salt but those are the basics. 

For worrying about the ground collapsing. You need to pick a good combination of sand/clay/loam. More clay will mean less visibility for you but less chance of tunnel collapse when things dry out. 

For watering. Watering from above is easier but do it carefully so you don't flood the nest. Doing it from below usually requires more thought into nest design but will lessen the chances of a catastrophic flood. 

 

Yeah that does make sense, but how deep is that layer? Or how deep do these founding queens actually go? I was just under the assumption that the wet soil is 6 inches deep in this scenario and that's the deepest I found my M. navajo which flew the night before according to Drew. I guess they dig through that dry section until they get to the deeper part with damp soil? 

 

I have some soil I took from where I saw some P. rugosus digging. I'll try that, it feels more sandy than clay though.

 

So I guess I can moisten the soil with a spray bottle which would be less impactful on the soil?

[JasonD]

 

 

 

 

Yeah that does make sense, but how deep is that layer? Or how deep do these founding queens actually go? I was just under the assumption that the wet soil is 6 inches deep in this scenario and that's the deepest I found my M. navajo which flew the night before according to Drew. I guess they dig through that dry section until they get to the deeper part with damp soil? 

 

I have some soil I took from where I saw some P. rugosus digging. I'll try that, it feels more sandy than clay though.

 

So I guess I can moisten the soil with a spray bottle which would be less impactful on the soil?

 

 

I don't know enough about hydrology to answer this - you'd have to look it up or ask a civil engineer. I know that if you're stranded in the desert you can dig a deep hole, cover it, and use that to collect condensation. The point is, moisture is there. 

 

I took sand from a dry creek bed literally right next to a Pogonomyrmex colony, and the sand collapsed when it dried out. If it is really sandy you should add some clay. I don't have a ton of experience with dirt formicariums though.

 

You can use a turkey baster or something - just do it carefully. Don't just dump in a ton of water haphazardly. 

[Scrixx]

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that does make sense, but how deep is that layer? Or how deep do these founding queens actually go? I was just under the assumption that the wet soil is 6 inches deep in this scenario and that's the deepest I found my M. navajo which flew the night before according to Drew. I guess they dig through that dry section until they get to the deeper part with damp soil? 

 

I have some soil I took from where I saw some P. rugosus digging. I'll try that, it feels more sandy than clay though.

 

So I guess I can moisten the soil with a spray bottle which would be less impactful on the soil?

 

 

I don't know enough about hydrology to answer this - you'd have to look it up or ask a civil engineer. I know that if you're stranded in the desert you can dig a deep hole, cover it, and use that to collect condensation. The point is, moisture is there. 

 

I took sand from a dry creek bed literally right next to a Pogonomyrmex colony, and the sand collapsed when it dried out. If it is really sandy you should add some clay. I don't have a ton of experience with dirt formicariums though.

 

You can use a turkey baster or something - just do it carefully. Don't just dump in a ton of water haphazardly. 

 

 

I guess that makes sense having some moisture in there, just not as much as previously thought. Maybe even very minimal amounts of moisture.

 

That's exactly where I got my soil too.. I'll add some potting soil since I'm not sure where to get clay. Maybe things sold as topsoil would work?