11 replies to this topic

[Antsinmycloset]

There was a post on Reddit a while ago that got me wondering. I know both of the above get a large chunk of their dietary protein from seeds and fungus, respectively, but how much animal protein do they consume at the founding stage and the established stage of their colonies? Could any species of leafcutters effectively go vegan? Do you leafcutter keepers treat your ants any different than your ants with a more traditional diet?

[dspdrew]

Leafcutters don't eat anything but fungus.

[Antsinmycloset]

The queens fly with just a tiny chunk of fungus in their mouth, right? Are they not fully claustral in the traditional sense, and collect some leaves/debris to start the fungus asap, or do they just ignore the fungus until the first generation is ready to start foraging?

I'm beginning to realize Atta are way more incredible, logistically, than I guessed. And since I know you're one of the more experienced keepers of Pogonomyrmex, mind sharing your thoughts in that regard?

Edited by Antsinmycloset, April 5 2017 - 12:14 AM.

[dspdrew]

I know Acromyrmex versicolor are semi-claustral. I would imagine all leafcutters are, but I don't know without looking it up.

[Antsinmycloset]

Apparently Atta really are, for the most part, fully claustral. How insane.

[AntsBrazil]

I keep Atta and the treatment is very different beginning by the setup, that needs a plaster "ground", so the fungus can grow. Atta makes the fungus grow using their feces, until the first workers arrive. In the wild they will eat fruits if they find it, mine liked some sugar+honey+water mixture that I gave them.

 

Here is a playlist of videos about my colony, since the beginning:

https://www.youtube....zFU2uNrDfsxStTC

And my journal:

http://www.formicult...updated-031717/

[Runner12]

Harvester ants consume a lot of insect protein, particularly mature colonies. They actually prefer it to seeds if they have a choice in my experience.

[Antsinmycloset]

Nice videos, JPS. Fascinating to see how quickly the brood/fungus pile grows to around half the volume of the queen in a month. Even if it's mostly water, that's still pretty incredible.

Runner, that makes sense. I imagine nutrients are both in better ratios and more easily accessible in insects than seeds. Have you ever tried cutting back on insects to see what they do with their grainery? I don't think I would, out of fear of messing something up, but I'd think that would be safe.

[Runner12]

They'll use their seed stores if insects are in short supply.

The main effect of providing less protein to them is lower egg production from the queen and smaller workers at least in my colonies. I still provide them with plenty of seeds/fruit as they still need it and it's a good way to make sure they're getting all the vitamins and trace minerals they need.

A pure protein diet can cause problems of its own, particularly if the feeder insects are captive raised.

Edited by Runner12, April 5 2017 - 6:36 PM.

[PTAntFan]

Runner12

 

Where you do you buy your seeds and what kind?  I have v. pergandei now and their seed intake is pretty specific to scrub brush.  Online seed stores seem to charge an arm and a leg for one species of plant.

[Runner12]

I will generally go to the health food section of grocery stores or search on Amazon for a particular species.

The ones I've had the most success with at least with mine are hulled hemp seeds, chia seeds, and crimson clover seed. These will almost always be taken, I have intermittent success with sunflower seeds and yellow millet.

I'm not sure if Veromessor would accept any of these though. I hope this helps some

[SirAnticus]

I went to petco and bought a bag of nyjer seeds used to feed birds.

Edited by SirAnticus, May 23 2017 - 9:45 PM.