17 replies to this topic

[AkumaArtist]

I know that in places from america (specially north) there are museums where you can actually give them,but here,in Spain,I've never seen any and I'm unsure that there actually are any,so,where should i give them if they grow too big? 
For now it isn't happening,but I'm thinking to do a double argentine ants colony and let it grow,so,if it grows to big,I want to know what to do with them

[gcsnelling]

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

Edited by gcsnelling, May 7 2017 - 3:23 AM.

[Nathant2131]

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

I have a question. If they are native, what is wrong with releasing them?

[Kevin]

 

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

I have a question. If they are native, what is wrong with releasing them?

 

 

This question has been asked a lot, but basically the arguments are that they aren't ready for battling prey and defending. By raising them in captivity you are giving them success, while in the wild they may have died, and apparently this act throws the ecosystem off by enough to annoy some members of this forum.

[Serafine]

You could ask a Zoo. However I doubt they want Argentines, usually Zoos go for Atta, Camponotus or Messor because they are big enough for people to see without magnifying glasses. 

 

Also all Zoos in southern Spain most likely have argentine ants already, they are a major pest with their giant supercolony stretching from southern Spain to Greece.

Edited by Serafine, May 7 2017 - 6:41 AM.

[gcsnelling]

 

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

I have a question. If they are native, what is wrong with releasing them?

 

Aside from the fact that since they have no established territory to be released in to, which pretty much assures they will suffer a cruel death. It is illegal to release any "wild" animal which has been in captivity for any period of time due to the danger of introducing  pathogens acquired while in captivity into wild populations. Before you say it, Yes it has been done on several occasions to reestablish population of species which have suffered population declines for various reasons, these reintroduction's are done under very carefully controlled and monitored situations.

[Nathant2131]

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

I have a question. If they are native, what is wrong with releasing them?

Aside from the fact that since they have no established territory to be released in to, which pretty much assures they will suffer a cruel death. It is illegal to release any "wild" animal which has been in captivity for any period of time due to the danger of introducing  pathogens acquired while in captivity into wild populations. Before you say it, Yes it has been done on several occasions to reestablish population of species which have suffered population declines for various reasons, these reintroduction's are done under very carefully controlled and monitored situations.

I see. Thank you.

[dermy]

There's a few things you can do if you want to keep a colony but it's gotten too big:

 

1- Limit the nesting space, less space and they won't be able to grow as big.

2- Limit the amount of food you are feeding them, less resources less ants will be reared by the colony.

3- Killing off workers [this is kind of a last resort thing, I don't like doing it but it does work if you want to thin down a colony without killing the whole thing]

[drtrmiller]

When one culls or removes workers from a large colony, remember that the ant colony is the larger organism—the body, if you will—while the workers are merely akin to short-lived, expendable, replaceable cells. Therefore, culling workers is about as cruel as a haircut or trimming one's fingernails.

[Klassien]

There's a few things you can do if you want to keep a colony but it's gotten too big:

 

1- Limit the nesting space, less space and they won't be able to grow as big.

2- Limit the amount of food you are feeding them, less resources less ants will be reared by the colony.

3- Killing off workers [this is kind of a last resort thing, I don't like doing it but it does work if you want to thin down a colony without killing the whole thing]

 

I can agree with this.

 

I personally avoid #3 at all costs although I believe there are several different ways to eliminate excess workers. I will say the food approach will kill off some workers if you are wanting to downsize the colony utilizing that method.

Say you are currently going through what used to be a week's worth of food in one day (which may be hard to notice unless you are journaling about your ants), plateauing the current food supply will limit the ants produced (like dermy said). But if you are wanting to downsize back to one week's worth of food (in one week of course), I would advise gradually removing the amount of food over time. The method will kill off workers and reduce rearing, but the carcasses don't pile up as fast (and it might help to monitor your colony closer).

For me, I just see this method as a more or less "natural" way to reduce the size if it gets too big. I try to look at downsizing as mimicking food may become scarce for a colony in the wild.

 

Like gcsnelling said, I also very highly advise not releasing them (meaning the workers and/or entire colony) into the wild. The chance of introducing a new disease/pathogen is indeed slim but there is always a possibility it could happen. The reestablishment of endangered animals (and insects) are carefully monitored, like marine catch and release programs for example. The ants (more than likely) will also not know how to adapt to predators, rain, etc. since they have not been conditioned to it resulting in the colony dying off. 

 

Please correct me if I have made errors about any of this.

 

Something to look at and think about (especially the reintroduction section):

http://www-personal....0/outline23.htm

 

Edit: Fixed a few grammatical errors.

Edited by Klassien, May 7 2017 - 2:33 PM.

[Reacker]

When one culls or removes workers from a large colony, remember that the ant colony is the larger organism—the body, if you will—while the workers are merely akin to short-lived, expendable, replaceable cells. Therefore, culling workers is about as cruel as a haircut or trimming one's fingernails.

 

I'll go further than that and say that killing the entire captive colony, queen and all, shouldn't be considered a moral issue. The entire food chain that you subsist on kills entire colonies continuously as a necessity. The buildings you inhabit and work in have almost certainly at some point had an inspector in to kill colonies that have moved in and made a nuisance of themselves. Colonies of wasps and termites get the same treatment. Workers from honeybee colonies are routinely killed by being smushed in the process of hive inspections. Just by being alive you're fractionally responsible for the deaths of many ants and colonies even before you knew about keeping ants as a hobby. This doesn't account for all of the vertebrates that are killed in the production of a vegetarian diet, nor what is essentially concentration camp conditions for pigs, cows, chickens, whatever that are considerably smarter than ants and which seem to have the same emotions and ability to feel pain that we do. We consider invertebrates to have the same moral weight as stones or dirt, and we barely treat our fellow mammal any better.

 

If you're okay with living in a pest free house and eating food then you should be okay with killing whatever quantity of ants you need to. 

[Vendayn]

That is why I release native LOCAL ants (meaning walking distance, and are native). Imagine releasing them and either A: They thrive (great for an area inundated by Argentine ants and other invasive/non-native ants). I've done this, and seen horny toad lizards start re-appearing because of the increase of Pogonomyrmex.

 

Or B they release a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 chance of a pathogen that infects all the Argentine ants and/or other invasive/non-native ants...meaning no more Argentine ants (or a HUGE decline of them). That be the greatest day of ants.

 

And if by chance the pathogen infects everything with some super deadly disease, then I'm pretty sure there serious problems from either something inside the apartment or something else and ants would be the least of my worries.

 

In any case, except for the last choice (which again, I'm pretty sure ants would be the last thing on my mind)...both A and B are equally great choices

 

And if they die by Argentine ants...well I'd have killed the colony anyway, meaning they were dead no matter what...or more likely they wouldn't be alive still anyway before I got the queen.

Edited by Vendayn, May 7 2017 - 3:29 PM.

[Vendayn]

To add the above post. Pretty sure all the pesticide spraying (that harms so much wildlife), construction (seen entire many miles of wilderness destroyed by housing), entire forests and rainforests destroyed by logging/farming and all the invasive/non-native ants and other insects do way more damage than releasing an ant caught locally (again walking distance, not a "native" ant caught many miles away). 

 

Plus, what about people transporting dirt/substrate of any kind on their vehicle/shoes and even clothes from walking...that has just as much a chance if not greater (because it happens a lot more often) to release some 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 chance of a pathogen to the local environment.

 

In any case. It seems the original poster is talking about Argentine ants and he lives in Spain, making them not native. Not the best thing to do.

Edited by Vendayn, May 7 2017 - 3:42 PM.

[AkumaArtist]

Thanks to all~ But...

1- There arent any zoo's near here,i'll need to travel arround 3 hours (or more) in car to go to the nearest one

2- I just can't kill my colonies,you start loving them when yo live with them some time

3- There are not many places to release them arround here,because in parks you arent alowed and i'll need to travel arround 30 min to go to some lil forest or just humanity "free" zones

4- Less food-space means ants trying to scape continously,not very effective (just my view)

5- MY bigger colony right now is a messor barbarus colony (queen lives arround 30 years!)

[Serafine]

1- There arent any zoo's near here,i'll need to travel arround 3 hours (or more) in car to go to the nearest one

Don't you have a phone? If you definitely know they'd take them it'd be a one-time trip, that's not too terrible.

[AkumaArtist]

 

1- There arent any zoo's near here,i'll need to travel arround 3 hours (or more) in car to go to the nearest one

Don't you have a phone? If you definitely know they'd take them it'd be a one-time trip, that's not too terrible.

 

I mean,there's a zoo pretty "far" and they arent interested in traveling for ants,here,ants arent very popular

[Winston]

 

 

There are no museums in the U.S. that will take your living colony if it outgrows you. You  best choice is to humanely kill them.

I have a question. If they are native, what is wrong with releasing them?

 

Aside from the fact that since they have no established territory to be released in to, which pretty much assures they will suffer a cruel death. It is illegal to release any "wild" animal which has been in captivity for any period of time due to the danger of introducing  pathogens acquired while in captivity into wild populations. Before you say it, Yes it has been done on several occasions to reestablish population of species which have suffered population declines for various reasons, these reintroduction's are done under very carefully controlled and monitored situations.

 

Taking Camponotus Ants/Colonies into account, couldn't you just release them near a free open, unoccupied log, they would just move in, and ants still have their primal instincts, ants in captivity still know how to disable and kill their prey, know how to dig and excavate living spaces, etc.

Edited by Winston, May 15 2017 - 2:41 PM.

[Jelly]

I don't any experience with it, but I read somewhere you can just limit their food consumption to limit their growth.

That way you can keep them from outgrowing the size of whatever you decide to keep them in.

 

Can someone confirm or deny?

Edited by Jelly, May 15 2017 - 7:18 PM.