17 replies to this topic

[Antony]

If I go on a road trip and bring back some pseudomyrmex Gracilis , Pogonomyrmex barbatus, atta texana, and P imparis would that be illegal? Just a question as I'm going to some soon that have those species.
States soon *

[T.C.]

Short answer, yes. No matter how it comes across state lines it's still illegal.

Edited by T.C., April 26 2017 - 3:57 PM.

[MrPurpleB]

That brings up a question, and its a bit silly. Let say theoritcally a person lives California, but really close to the state border. What if you just go a few miles or even a mile to the other state and go back to your state, is it still illegal? It probably is, but just something I thought of.

[Batspiderfish]

Yes, that is illegal, and you wouldn't be welcome here if you considered that worthwhile.

[Batspiderfish]

That brings up a question, and its a bit silly. Let say theoritcally a person lives California, but really close to the state border. What if you just go a few miles or even a mile to the other state and go back to your state, is it still illegal? It probably is, but just something I thought of.

 

This conversation has occurred dozens and dozens of times. It's still illegal  and unethical. Your local ants are good enough.

Edited by Batspiderfish, April 26 2017 - 4:09 PM.

[Batspiderfish]

Unless they are dead specimens*

[drtrmiller]

It doesn't help that all the species you described have very close—and some might say harmful—interactions with plants or plant products.

[dspdrew]

Why is the concept of crossing a State line so hard to understand? Whether by car, skateboard, horseback, roller blades, pogostick, or even a catapult, it's still crossing the State line.

[Antony]

I was just asking sheesh. I'm not gonna do it, don't really know those species. Just asking. Sorry.

[Reacker]

 

That brings up a question, and its a bit silly. Let say theoritcally a person lives California, but really close to the state border. What if you just go a few miles or even a mile to the other state and go back to your state, is it still illegal? It probably is, but just something I thought of.

 

This conversation has occurred dozens and dozens of times. It's still illegal  and unethical. Your local ants are good enough.

 

Obviously it's illegal, but I don't see why it's unethical. If you live one mile West from the border and there is the same species in a 2 mile radius from your house I can't think of a moral distinction between catching and taking home that species from the Eastern side of that circle (1 mile East of the border) vs the Western edge (3 miles West of the border) regardless of the legality. If 3 Miles West of the border is "local" and thus ethical, so is 1 mile East of it.

Edited by Reacker, April 26 2017 - 5:50 PM.

[dspdrew]

 

 

That brings up a question, and its a bit silly. Let say theoritcally a person lives California, but really close to the state border. What if you just go a few miles or even a mile to the other state and go back to your state, is it still illegal? It probably is, but just something I thought of.

 

This conversation has occurred dozens and dozens of times. It's still illegal  and unethical. Your local ants are good enough.

 

Obviously it's illegal, but I don't see why it's unethical. If you live one mile West from the border and there is the same species in a 2 mile radius from your house I can't think of a moral distinction between catching and taking home that species from the Eastern side of that circle (1 mile East of the border) vs the Western edge (3 miles West of the border) regardless of the legality. If 3 Miles West of the border is "local" and thus ethical, so is 1 mile East of it.

 

 

Good point. I think a scenario like that would be as unethical as rolling through a stop sign.

[Canadian anter]

Just collect the queens, bring them to the border and let them crawl over on their own six legs. Then you cross the border and catch it there

All joking aside, while it's illegal, I don't see why it's unethical.

[BMM]

I could walk to my state line if I wanted to. I certainly wouldn't feel unethical for transporting an ant two or three miles. That said, what's the point? Any ant that lives a couple miles away across the border probably lives on my side of it as well. There's not really a good reason to break the law in that case. 

[Canadian anter]

area specific ants. For example I have to drive 40 mins north to find Aphaenogaster 

[Batspiderfish]

The distinction between following the law because it is a sensible idea and following the law because it is a law, is an ethical one. State borders are an imaginary human construct, but they are what make laws enforceable in the first place. Taking on the moral authority to justify breaking the law gives everybody, especially amateurs who haven't the slightest idea what they are dealing with, an excuse to do the same. You have no need for the ants four miles away when they already exist near your house, and if the ant communities there are that different, then you have even less business taking them home.

So yeah, it is still an ethical problem, not the least of which because it's part of the same exotic fever which makes the hobby intellectually worthless.

Edited by Batspiderfish, April 26 2017 - 6:36 PM.

[Antony]

Well most people (off of my experience) drive many hours to get ants which are not located where they live. Even if that's allowed driving 6-8 hours north to south or south to north in California is the same thing as 6-8 hours to Nevada , or arizona.

[Alabama Anter]

Well most people (off of my experience) drive many hours to get ants which are not located where they live. Even if that's allowed driving 6-8 hours north to south or south to north in California is the same thing as 6-8 hours to Nevada , or arizona.

I know that like I am a huge problem here, but I would like to speak without causing a forum 'war'. I agree with this statement. Take Rhode Island for example. Let's say I live there and this guy from a state REALLY close to me already has a species that is native to my area. Rhode Island has only 1,212 square miles. Still illegal to get the colony right? Now let's take California for an example. Let's say an antkeeper in Nor-Cal is selling species like hard to catch Manica species. A guy from So-Cal can easily drive up there and get the colony. California has 163, 696 square miles. Not illegal right? Just some food for thought...

[Batspiderfish]

People who need to go that far out of their way to find unique ants really aren't trying hard enough to understand their local diversity and natural history. I live in a state with middling diversity, raise non-endemic queens that nobody else has ever kept, and I only have my brain and my own two legs to depend on.

The way that newbies obsess over exotic ants prevents them from partaking in that uniqueness or from contributing to the hobby. There are hundreds of ants out there that nobody on the forum has any idea how to take care of because so many members are ignorant of their surroundings, relying on myself and a few others to identify their ants for them. They don't have the insight to obtain exciting ants, and it is truly sad.

 

I'm not going to waste time making the same arguments why people need to follow the laws. You all need to follow them regardless of whether you can wrap your head around them, or else struggle to change them. The forum does not need imaginative advice on how to break them.

If you want to continue this futile conversation, pile it on to the other threads by which this has already been fought over.

Edited by Batspiderfish, April 26 2017 - 7:06 PM.