14 replies to this topic

[MichiganAnts]

i've always been told that Tetramorium is a mono species, yet I just read this and they are saying they are fully poly. I know they can be poly during foundation.

 

http://animaldiversi...rium_caespitum/

 

edited for spelling

Edited by MichiganAnts, April 7 2017 - 9:31 PM.

[LC3]

I have two T.sp e queens nesting together, having raised at least 5 generations but due to neglect never got a full grown colony. 

 

I've read sources where more then one queen is found per colony, usually two, and the polygyny doesn't always last. If I remember the numbers correctly it was roughly 1 in 1000 colonies. Not to mention Tetramorium sp.e is composed of a bunch of near morphologically identical species, making it all the more harder to determine. Most journals I've read (which arguably isn't many) only feature one queen or one queen get's killed later on. Of course there's always a possibility for misidentification between the Japanese T. tsushima. The hotspots I've read of  accounts of T.tsushima in North America are along the Eastern United States and North California.

Edited by LC3, April 7 2017 - 10:35 PM.

[BMM]

Tetramorium tsushimae is definitely polygynous and from what I've read they seem to be slowly displacing T. sp.E. They're most common in Missouri and Illinois, but there are reports of them in other parts of the Midwest and occasionally on the East Coast.

[ctantkeeper]

They are not polygynous. They are pleometrophic. Why does everyone act like this is not a thing lol.

Edited by ctantkeeper, April 8 2017 - 8:37 AM.

[Batspiderfish]

Polygyny is a trait derived from genetics, and not all of the members of a given species necessarily have that trait. Additionally, Tetramorium sp. E is a species complex, not one species itself.

Edited by Batspiderfish, April 8 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[KingLarryXVII]

I actually do have a Poly tetramorium colony, but I think its uncommon.  I started 5 colonies with 3 queens each.  In the first 4, they ended up with a single queen as expected, but with the last, one queen was killed, but the other two are still around a year or so later.  I'm not sure if maybe they were related or if sometimes the workers just accept both queens.

[ctantkeeper]

Maybe, I have simply never experience this. As stated earlier, Tetramorium is a complex of species. This would lead me to suspect that many of these individual species would utilize different founding strategies from others.

[Alabama Anter]

Polygyny is a trait derived from genetics, and not all of the members of a given species necessarily have that trait. Additionally, Tetramorium sp. E is a species complex, not one species itself.

I know right?! Everybody thinks it HAS to be polygyne or monogyne

[ctantkeeper]

 

Polygyny is a trait derived from genetics, and not all of the members of a given species necessarily have that trait. Additionally, Tetramorium sp. E is a species complex, not one species itself.

I know right?! Everybody thinks it HAS to be polygyne or monogyne

 

^^^^ THIS GUY GETS IT !!!!! Just because Mikey Bustos considers Pleometrophic founding to either be "failed attempts at polygyne founding" or simply denies its existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist / isn't relavent. Pleometrophic founding can actually give rise to successful colonies if implemented correctly. As someone who has experimented with pleometrophic founding in the past, it is definitely worth it if you can pull it off. I respect Mikey and his work, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that this is the same guy who believes female alates are born from "special queen eggs". Maybe "dumbing down" your content to make it more palatable isn't the best way of handling things.

Edited by ctantkeeper, April 9 2017 - 3:15 PM.

[Batspiderfish]

 

 

Polygyny is a trait derived from genetics, and not all of the members of a given species necessarily have that trait. Additionally, Tetramorium sp. E is a species complex, not one species itself.

I know right?! Everybody thinks it HAS to be polygyne or monogyne

 

^^^^ THIS GUY GETS IT !!!!! Just because Mikey Bustos considers Pleometrophic founding to either be "failed attempts at polygyne founding" or simply denies its existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist / isn't relavent. Pleometrophic founding can actually give rise to successful colonies if implemented correctly. As someone who has experimented with pleometrophic founding in the past, it is definitely worth it if you can pull it off. I respect Mikey and his work, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that this is the same guy who believes female alates are born from "special queen eggs". Maybe "dumbing down" your content to make it more palatable isn't the best way of handling things.

 

Antscanada may not have the most reliable information, but Mikey's videos did inspire a LOT of us to get (back) into ants.

Also, a lot of us have been ripping off his nest designs for years in our DIY endeavors.

Edited by Batspiderfish, April 9 2017 - 4:03 PM.

[ctantkeeper]

 

 

 

Polygyny is a trait derived from genetics, and not all of the members of a given species necessarily have that trait. Additionally, Tetramorium sp. E is a species complex, not one species itself.

I know right?! Everybody thinks it HAS to be polygyne or monogyne

 

^^^^ THIS GUY GETS IT !!!!! Just because Mikey Bustos considers Pleometrophic founding to either be "failed attempts at polygyne founding" or simply denies its existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist / isn't relavent. Pleometrophic founding can actually give rise to successful colonies if implemented correctly. As someone who has experimented with pleometrophic founding in the past, it is definitely worth it if you can pull it off. I respect Mikey and his work, but at the same time I have to acknowledge that this is the same guy who believes female alates are born from "special queen eggs". Maybe "dumbing down" your content to make it more palatable isn't the best way of handling things.

 

Antscanada may not have the most reliable information, but Mikey's videos did inspire a LOT of us to get (back) into ants.

Also, a lot of us have been ripping off his nest designs for years in our DIY endeavors.

 

Lol, good point. Mikey and his wife used to be friends of mine and I still have a lot of respect for him and his craft. Mikey's videos (among many other things) inspired me to get into rearing ants as well. I just feel that some of his videos have been a bit lackluster due to offering to little information or by offering incorrect facts / info.

[Alabama Anter]

Yeah same. I find that 'older' Mikey videos were a lot more informative. Some of his tites are clickbait but man that guy deserves our respect. Back to the topic. I have had ALL of my Solenopsis invicta pleomatric.

[Roachant]

In my experience, they can be poly during founding and then once the colony gets to be at a certain size, the workers kill other queens and leave one. I'm talking about the Tetramorium species we have around here, probably T. Caps.

I agree with those who want to try though. It's fascinating to observe and the colony will start stronger than with just one queen.

[gcsnelling]

Poly? Mono?

[sgheaton]

My Tetramorium Caespitum did not enjoy being raised together. Those that were grouped together burrowed and started founding chambers, but it was a race to raise the first force that could overthrow the other queen. I only combined the queens together as I had found so many that I didn't know what to due with.