11 replies to this topic

[thosaka]

This was a trip to the Anza Borrego Desert State Park on 3/28/2017. The weather was around 75-83 degrees, near 0 percent precipitation. I drove up to the visitor center at the park and parked somewhere near there, where many of the visitors were parking. I searched around hellhole canyon as well as another trail where people could drive their cars up to and camp out. I also searched about 20 acres off-trail. My expectations were low going into this trip and finding a queen, and it was good I kept it low, because I did not find any. I did find a few colonies, with ants big and small. There were a few holes that looked like claustral chambers, but I had no luck digging them. It seems like there were many harvester ants there. These pictures show most of the area where I was. It seems like most, if not, all state parks are protected in U.S. so I will not be going back there to look for a queen ant. Same rule may apply to National "Parks". I called them three times at different times to confirm about their rules but they didn't pick up. It was fun while it lasted. I will have to stick to national "forests" from now on or risk paying a 1000 dollar fine or going to jail for 90 days. On the bright side, I might make the news headline, going to jail for collecting insects. On the downside, I'll be stuck with a criminal record and 90 days of prison meal in cell block D and, I refuse to get raped by a dude. I decided to call Angeles National Forest (randomly picked) to see if collecting ants is allowed, and she said you can collect queen ants if it is solely for hobby purpose. She stated that if it is commercial, I will be needing a permit. I am going to see how much this permit costs.

 

*There was a lake I passed by on my way to ABDSP. There were many cows there as shown in the picture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tagassi, April 3 2017 - 1:31 PM.

[SoySauce]

Wow, beautiful pictures, thank you!  I was at the campgrounds and there was a nice hike through the gorge along the creek to a palm tree oasis.  There were signs everywhere too to leave the mountain goats (or are they sheep?) alone if they came down from to drink.  It was pretty awesome.

[thosaka]

Wow, beautiful pictures, thank you!  I was at the campgrounds and there was a nice hike through the gorge along the creek to a palm tree oasis.  There were signs everywhere too to leave the mountain goats (or are they sheep?) alone if they came down from to drink.  It was pretty awesome.

Yeah. The palm tree oasis you found were nice. I didn't see much where I was at, but I suspect the ants would have loved it living near those palm trees as well for some shade. I did find alot of cacti you found as well though. I did not see any mountain goats or sheeps either, but that is nice you did see them. I saw a single falcon/eagle in the air and alot of those orange insects you found. Likewise, thank you for your pictures as well. 

Edited by Tagassi, April 3 2017 - 1:42 PM.

[gcsnelling]

Collecting in all national forests is permitted without permit unless for commercial purposes as stated. Permits for national park is pretty much impossible to obtain without a valid scientific purpose. Collecting in California state parks is prohibited without permit which is generally impossible to get.

[SoySauce]

The only ants I saw were v. Pergandei. It was also very rocky.

Collecting in all national forests is permitted without permit unless for commercial purposes as stated. Permits for national park is pretty much impossible to obtain without a valid scientific purpose. Collecting in California state parks is prohibited without permit which is generally impossible to get.

Yeah, we already all went through that in this thread.

http://www.formicult...am-still-alive/

Edited by SoySauce, April 3 2017 - 3:26 PM.

[dspdrew]

When I used to have lots of extra time at work, I once read through the requirements for a permit to collect in National Parks, and it was hilarious. Impossible is the most accurate term.

[gcsnelling]

I once had a friend with a lifetime collecting permit for Yosemite NP.

[Subverted]

I once had a friend with a lifetime collecting permit for Yosemite NP.

Do you know if it was really a collecting permit or was it a "memorandum of understanding" letter from the director of the National Park System?

I know its really just a matter of legal semantics as both accomplish the same thing but I am curious how that permit would work! Just a blank spot for the expiration date?

[gcsnelling]

It has been a very long time since I have seen the thing, as long as he had it, it may well have been issued before the current permit system was in place and possibly qualified as a memorandum.

[yen_saw]

I'll chip in to this hot topic too. In Texas it was not difficult to acquire a permit for collecting in state park. If it was for observation and study purpose, the state park will request the collector to report the results of your finding. There is also a limit on quantity you can collect per species. In my case, I was looking for praying mantis. My reason was to ID mantis species and study their life cycle. Bare in mind that I am not entomologist nor associate with any science institution for the permit application. I have a full time job that (sadly) not related to insect at all. So it was purely for hobby purpose and my own mantids study.

 

My first application was back in 2009. I wrote to Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) headquarters trying to reach the director but was refer to the natural resources in TPWD. I was given the approval and permit via email which lasted only a few late summer months and only able to collect at one state park. I was given a waiver on entrance fee and guidance to the park by helpful rangers. They even pointed me to places where i am likely to see praying mantis. I was lucky to collect some cool mantis (Including the elusive Texas unicorn mantis - Phyllovates chlorophaea).

 

I proceed to bring the collected specimen back to Houston and raise the specimen for one generation, report the finding on species and life cycle details. I sent my findings back to them, and the following year i was given a year long permit with access to all 9 World Birding Center (WBC) state parks along the gulf coast. I don't mind share the response I received from state park on my first application. 

 

David Riskind <David.Riskind@tpwd.state.tx.us>

•  
• 07/27/09 at 1:08 PM

To

• yen saw

Message body

This will be your authorization to collect limited numbers of mantids and egg cases from Bensten-Rio Grande Valley State Park for purposes of live observation and rearing in controlled conditions.  Number of individuals and egg cases shall not exceed five per species. 

 

At the conclusion of your studies a digital report on your findings shall be submitted to me at the following e-mail address: david.riskind@tpwd.state.tx.us

 

 

This authorization expires 1 October 2009

 

 

Prior to any field investigations please check in with the park headquarters and obtain a scientific study entrance fee waiver.

 

DHR

Natural Resources TPWD

 

I don't know how different is it in California or if it was for ants. Just want to share my experience on permit application for collecting in state park.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread Tagassi. Love the wonderful pics, definitely much better than the concrete jungle we live in.

Edited by yen_saw, April 4 2017 - 7:16 AM.

[dspdrew]

I would be curious to see if anyone could get such authorization in the People's Republic of California. I'm guessing no.

[gcsnelling]

I would be curious to see if anyone could get such authorization in the People's Republic of California. I'm guessing no.

California is far more strict, I did at one time have a permit for Anza Borrego during a period when they were actually interested in surveying the fauna of the park. Alas after a couple of years the focus shifted and all the interest ended.