60 replies to this topic

[MichiganAnts]

I mostly skimmed this thread, but I will add my two cents about Camponotus in general.

 

I have noted in the past that the location (and climate) the queen originated from plays a huge part in care and success rate.

Many journals I have read with northern species that hibernate in a cold snap tend to do much better than those that hail from a place with no snow.

I have watched dozens of Camponotus journals from California do well until they hit the first 'dormancy period'. Most often the colony either completely or partially collapses.

Yet most northern ones that get put into a fridge tend to rarely had die-offs.

I once caught a hundred Camponotus herculeanus queens. about 12 died in the first 2 weeks to parasites, wasp larvae, and other unknown causes. Two years later (and 2 hibernation periods later), I still had 85 colonies hale and healthy that I sold.

Why the ones from places with no snow have such problems with a captive dormancy period is beyond me.

My guess would be the "northern" Camponotus are just able to handle alot more than once that don't hibernate. Also i tend to think some people don't give the colonies enough stress. 

[Runner12]

The main issue I am having is when starting a colony from a queen and no workers at all colony growth collapses after a few generations of workers.

This is a known phenomenon with Camponotus, at least according to the researchers I've communicated with about it,and it squares with my personal experiences with them. Most have a suspicion but have not proven a nutrient deficiency of some sort is involved.

My main purpose was to find out if anyone has successfully started out with a single queen and raised a large colony,that is 100s or 1000s from her, and if so how long it took, which is apparently difficult amd very rare but possible. I don't typically capture mature colonies.

I have watched wild colonies grow from a single queen to 50 to 75 workers within their first season, whereas in my colonies I'm lucky to hit 25 within a year. Something is lacking in captive rearing of Camponotus I continue to believe,but I am encouraged that a few members seem to have had some success with them.

Edited by Runner12, April 3 2017 - 9:35 AM.

[soulsynapse]

based on this thread I'm going to give my camponotus oak chips, bark and resin to work with

[nurbs]

I've reared different species of Camponotus to a mature colony in nothing more than plastic containers and test tubes, so it may very well depend on the species. Some are many years old. I hibernate mine by just leaving them outside in a dark sunless spot in the LA winter. One of the reasons I love Camponotus (other than their size) is that once the queen settles, they are generally easy to care for.

 

Diet is important of course. Separate the carbs/sugars from the protein and let the ants decide what to eat. Give them variety and don't feed them the same proteins/sugars every week. Sometimes I alternate between live insects (crickets, wingless fruit flies) and finely diced rotisserie chicken from Ralphs. Hummingbird nectar/diluted honey/fruits/byformica is also in the rotation. I also have heating cables and mats to create a heat gradient for them to choose where to place their brood.

 

If you feed them fruits with the skin still one, be sure to thoroughly wash the fruit! I once killed an entire colony of ants because the apple I gave them had pesticide on it.

[nurbs]

And then there are days when you think you are doing everything right, and the colony dies off or the queen has a sudden unexplained death. It happens. Just find as many queens as you can to increase your chance of success.

[MichiganAnts]

i concur with nurbs. Although to add i think stressing them is important aswell. live feeding and such is good for them.

[SoySauce]

I've reared different species of Camponotus to a mature colony in nothing more than plastic containers and test tubes, so it may very well depend on the species. Some are many years old. I hibernate mine by just leaving them outside in a dark sunless spot in the LA winter. One of the reasons I love Camponotus (other than their size) is that once the queen settles, they are generally easy to care for.

 

Diet is important of course. Separate the carbs/sugars from the protein and let the ants decide what to eat. Give them variety and don't feed them the same proteins/sugars every week. Sometimes I alternate between live insects (crickets, wingless fruit flies) and finely diced rotisserie chicken from Ralphs. Hummingbird nectar/diluted honey/fruits/byformica is also in the rotation. I also have heating cables and mats to create a heat gradient for them to choose where to place their brood.

 

If you feed them fruits with the skin still one, be sure to thoroughly wash the fruit! I once killed an entire colony of ants because the apple I gave them had pesticide on it.

 

Awesome information for us newbs.  Thank you!

[Crystals]

I have several journals where I raised a lone queen to a large colony. My current Camponotus novaeboracensis colony numbers roughly around 500-800 or so.

I have never experienced such die offs, but I usually sell most of my colonies by the time they hit their third or fourth year.

[Antsinmycloset]

Anyone want to elaborate on what you consider positive stresses?

[thosaka]

Anyone want to elaborate on what you consider positive stresses?

I would say:
little disturbance
fresh insects
darkness
good water and heat gradient
carb
huge outworld
real plants
sand
claustral sized chambers

[Alabama Anter]

Anyone want to elaborate on what you consider positive stresses?

I would say:
little disturbance
fresh insects
darkness
good water and heat gradient
carb
huge outworld
real plants
sand
claustral sized chambers

Actually for smaller colonies, having a huge outworld is not ideal. Camponotus species during their young stages will not stray far from the nest. Take a look at Serafine's Lazy Tube journal. There he explained that thy don't move far.

[AntswerMe]

My C. floridanus (species which the research paper refers to) colony is doing well, and has even produced majors. It's not showing any sign of slowing down.

Edited by AntswerMe, April 16 2017 - 8:37 AM.

[Runner12]

I've heard C.floridanus is an ideal species to raise in captivity and seems to be used in lab studies a lot.

Anecdotally a lot of ant keepers seem to think they do better in captivity too, definitely going to try to get some this summer and see how they compare

Edited by Runner12, April 16 2017 - 9:54 AM.

[Serafine]

Actually for smaller colonies, having a huge outworld is not ideal. Camponotus species during their young stages will not stray far from the nest. Take a look at Serafine's Lazy Tube journal. There he explained that thy don't move far.

They have a pretty big outworld though, they're just not really using it.
I usually place food directly in front of their nest so they don't have to wander far but I do know they can - in their previous setup a worker found a drop of honey a good 20cm away from the nest entrance on a side wall 3cm above the ground. It's more a thing of not having to.

Also they're almost entirely nocturnal.

 

This is the typical daily (or nightly) routine of my Camponotus (6 workers):

Edited by Serafine, April 16 2017 - 2:17 PM.

[Loops117]

Super interested to see were this thread leads to. I myself have a couple different colonies of varying Camponotus. I can personally attest to the location being a key factor in how well a queen places among her peers.

 

For instance, i've caught queens of the same species (mainly, but not limited to Camponotus) from both the Upper and the lower peninsula of michigan. First thing i noticed is that arboreal colonies are smaller and more abundant in numbers as you get closer to the suburbs, with the opposite being in more rural areas.

This leads me to believe that perhaps queens and colonies located in more urban areas produce larger batches with weaker queens. This may allow them to have a better chance of founding a colony, but could greatly reduce the life span/expectancy of the queen. In the north, colonies were less likely to be destroyed by human invasion or construction, so perhaps the colonies are able to grow larger and produce healthier offspring due to their healthier life. If you were to relate this to how some other species of insects and plants work, the urban colonies may be trying to reproduce more to guarantee their future existence.

Another factor that leads me to believe that northern queens are built stronger is that they were bulkier then there southern sisters. If i'm not mistaken, some other species have been documented doing this as well. They'll sacrifice the amount of energy given to reproductive brood in order to have more.

 

All of my queens get the same treatment which is a mix of Stress Training and it shows which queens do better. My northern queens took to stress easier, were able to survive colder temps, and just produced better in general. Now, this wasnt really a test i was actively conducting, but it was eye opening when it comes to location of collection and how well my queen may do. 

 

I stress train all of my ants. Due to the nature of this hobby, i train my ants to be used to indoor day/night light cycles, vibrations, shaking and tube rolls. I don't want my ants to be used to total darkness and no movement throughout the founding stages, and then everything changes when they're sold or passed on to a new hobbyist. This gives me peace of mind knowing that whoever receives my ants will have a colony that won't die after a couple days in new hands.

 

Loops

Edited by Loops117, July 6 2017 - 6:34 AM.

[Loops117]

Edited my response.

[ultraex2]

Edited my response.

 

Just wondering, do you hold off on stress training until after nanitics or do you also do it during founding stages too?  I think it's a great idea and would like to start doing it too.

[Loops117]

 

Edited my response.

 

Just wondering, do you hold off on stress training until after nanitics or do you also do it during founding stages too?  I think it's a great idea and would like to start doing it too.

 

 

I start from day 1. My ants are kept in tubes, in a case with a glass lid. Because i work with my ants daily, i move the case around daily. The vibrations caused from moving them around, sorting tubes, and putting them back is plenty enough to get used to them.

When i work with my ants, i bring them from my Bug Area outside to the deck. I also bring my entire selection of ants in the case with me during transactions. The changing of rooms, going outside, or driving in the car causes a lot of light flashing on the tubes. This helps for anyone taking photos. You're less likely to startle your colony with a light or flash when taking photos.

The ants won't ever get used to tube rolls, but the fact that it happens is enough for them to freak out less each time. Some of the queens have even showed some type of understanding on what's happening and hold themselves still inside the tube. They achieve this by sprawling their legs out as far as they can inside, and giving themselves less space to move during a roll.

 

This is all experimental. I have been growing things my entire life, and stress training is part of everything. I have 0 way of knowing if the stress training has helped with the death of any queens I've had in my care. As we all know, not every plan of action works with every species. Some don't take, and some arn't even fertile in the first place. But, i do have a very high success rate with my queens, and this is how i do it.

[Yeehana255]

I was wanting a c. Pennsylvanicus ever since I began ant keeping. Plenty of tetramorium but never what I wanted. I found a massive girl in my garage under a pot in a crack in the concrete. I quickly grabbed her and put her in a tt. All of my test tubes have red film paper for easier viewing.

The next morning she's had 7 eggs under her, in a pile and not scattered. When they hit larvae, she laid another 8 or so. That's when my MINI HEARTH XL arrived and moved her and her brood in there. Her test tube reeked of formic acid. But I never seen her frantically stressed. When the first became pupae, she laid another 10 or so eggs.

She has had her first 7 nanitics and the larvae from the second batch of eggs have started to pupate. It's hard to see if she has more eggs but being August, she might slow down for the early cold omaha, ne gets. I never fed her because of how big she was when I first got her. Now with the nanitics, I've gave them cricket leg, super worm bits, a bird seed/dried fruit mix, organic honey syrup, and brown sugar water. I move the heating cable around so I can see how active she is and she moves around alot.

My plan is when this colony gets big enough for an aquarium style formicarium, I want to introduce them to wood...since it's in their nature to nest in it. Clean wood of course but not too clean because I've seen many c pennsylvanicus colonies in natural wood and thrive in it with the loads of bacteria and what not.

Maybe in the wild, something in the wood gives them what they need to thrive. Maybe it is a north and south thing. But ants have lived where they are for many years and have adapted to that region. If a colony dies out unexpectedly, it's called nature. She is fickle.

[Acutus]

Wow! Thanks for reviving this thread! Was a great read and lots of new information I've never thought about.
Good Luck with your colony. I love the mini hearth so I have a C. castaneus in one and I just had to expand it with another minute I hearth.