40 replies to this topic

[CaveBear]

Hello everyone,
 I will be working for a pangolin rescue in Zimbabwe soon making some formicultures for the rescued pangolins there- the babies and severely injured adults need a constant supply of ants, and theyve been struggling to have this in captivity. All of the Pangolins are re released into the wild eventually, but the baby and injured pangolins must obviously be cared for until that is possible.

The ground pangolin, Smutsia temminckii, is the most trafficked animal in the world and has a highly specialized diet. More than 90% of its diet consists of two species of ants-

Anoplolepis Custodiens (70%) and Myrmicaria Natalensis (20%)

For M. Natalensis I have found some records of people keeping them, but I can't find anything for A. Custodiens (which is the more important of the two species). I would like to know if anyone has experience with this species? How difficult is it? What would a large colony look like? how long does it take to establish?

Anyone have links?

I am an entomologist, and I have good experience keeping other insects, roaches and BSF and a bunch of other things, but not too much experience with ants long-term.


Here is a video about the rescue:




 

Edited by CaveBear, March 29 2017 - 10:08 PM.

[Antking117]

Unfamiliar with these ant species, in about 6 hours it will be morning and I am sure people will have something to say

[Vanko]

I saw very ugly pictures where pangolins (mature and babies) had been frozen. Do Africans put them there alive and wait until they die?

[CaveBear]

Dude I don't even want to think about it. Its horrible how these gentle little guys are treated.... the worst is when they keep them alive and slowly rip their scales off as they need them to use for their stupid "medicine" ...

Anyway, its depressing. Help me save them!

 

[Vanko]

...wow... and they wait until there scales grow up again?

[CaveBear]

i seriously doubt it. They need to forage to survive- they only eat these two ants, and in large numbers. But its still almost a week of torture.

[Vanko]

Well I guess best you could do is giant natural formicariums.

[Antking117]

It would probably take years for a sustainable food source of ants.. id recommend a lot of colonies in setups, get them as big as you can then starting feeding here and there. Like i said though, I'm not sure.

[CaveBear]

The way the pangolin hunts gets its ants is by tearing into and digging up the nests of ants with its large claws, and eating the ones inside the nest- the ants then rebuild and recover. Since they have adapted to this kind of stress, it may be the case where we can just dig up large colonies and transplant them and continue to grow them in captivity.

What do you think?

[Vanko]

Let me check those types.

[Vanko]

Well, I am new in ant keeping but I can tell you something for sure : digging out ant nests is a stupid idea! Most important part of the whole colony is the queen. It is very possible to kill her while digging or transplanting her.
Also keeping ants as pets is one, but keeping them as food for is completely different job. I bet a single pangolin eats a couple of thousand ants a day. It is close to mind that you can't use only one nest to feed a whole pangolin farm. Ants need some time to repair their nests.
I have no idea how much space do you have but you will need a HUGE farm.

PS Tell us how do you care for your pangolins. Do you bring them to a different ant colony every day and let them eat as much as they want or what?

[Antking117]

I mean, wouldn't most ants (as long as the queen survive ) be able to rebuild and recover from a creature destroying your nest? I thought you meant to keep the formicariums yourself and then take a bunch of ants put them in a bowl and feed them to the pangolin. ( if you want them to dig them up and hunt them themselves then I'm not sure.

[Antking117]

Also keeping ants as pets is one, but keeping them as food for is completely different job. I bet a single pangolin eats a couple of thousand ants a day. It is close to mind that you can't use only one nest to feed a whole pangolin farm. Ants need some time to repair their nests.
I have no idea how much space do you have but you will need a HUGE farm.

I 2nd this.

[CaveBear]

Most of the adult pangolins are taken for walks in the brush everyday to hunt for ants naturally. This project is not for them- this is are for feeding baby pangolins and injured pangolins. There are not too many of these at any given time, so it does lighten the load a bit!

They won't have to dig them up, we should be able to harvest them and put them in a bowl or the equivalent. I expect to have many colonies up and going, so we can harvest at a sustainable rate from each, in a non destructive way.

I mention their ability to adapt to nest distrubance to highlight that i should be able to dig up a bunch of ants (including the queen, of course), and start culturing right away.

Space is not an issue- difficulty of upkeep will be! I need to simplify their care as much as possible, so i can't train others to do it. Its also ok if it takes some years to get going fully. no time like the present.



 

Edited by CaveBear, March 27 2017 - 1:16 AM.

[Antking117]

Most of the adult pangolins are taken for walks in the brush everyday to hunt for ants naturally. This project is not for them- this is are for feeding baby pangolins and injured pangolins. There are not too many of these at any given time, so it does lighten the load a bit!

They won't have to dig them up, we should be able to harvest them and put them in a bowl or the equivalent. I expect to have many colonies up and going, so we can harvest at a sustainable rate from each, in a non destructive way.



 

Ok i see, well then very possible. But you will also need to think about how you will need a lot of other protien sources for the ants and sugar water or of the sort. I'm sure you can breed cockroaches, mealworms, super worms, etc tho with your credentials. Just the matter of getting the colonies going then..

[CaveBear]

Good to hear that someone is a bit hopeful, hahaha!

Yes, this is the information I'm seeking- I'm having trouble even finding much published research about Anoplolepis Custodiens, so i can't learn much about their habits!
from the little I've seen, they seem to enjoy eating honeydew- has that ever been done in captivity? can i just replace that with sugar water or something?

And how picky would you expect ants to be about their protein sources? would love it if i could just use roaches, but again, not too experienced with how preferenced ants are.

So you think i may be able to just dig these bad boys up and raise the colonies from there? would make life so much easier, and the ant is quite common

Edited by CaveBear, March 27 2017 - 1:24 AM.

[Antking117]

Good to hear that someone is a bit hopeful, hahaha!

Yes, this is the information I'm seeking- I'm having trouble even finding much published research about Anoplolepis Custodiens, so i can't learn much about their habits!
from the little I've seen, they seem to enjoy eating honeydew- has that ever been done in captivity? can i just replace that with sugar water or something?

And how picky would you expect ants to be about their protein sources? would love it if i could just use roaches, but again, not too experienced with how preferenced ants are.

So you think i may be able to just dig these bad boys up and raise the colonies from there? would make life so much easier, and the ant is quite common

Ants can be picky, but just offer them a wide variety of protien sources until they accept it, meal worms, super worms, cockroaches, whey mixes, crickets, cooked fish, tuna, cooked chicken, and much more. I do not see why honey dew can not be substituted with by sugar water, honey water, and more.

Digging ants up is not necessarily the best way (unless you get them while still in founding chamber), but people have their own opinions and will be able to give more information than me.

Edited by antking117, March 27 2017 - 1:59 AM.

[Vanko]

I don't know these ants species but some ant queens produce only few eggs a week! So I wouldn't care about ants diet at first place. For now quantity looks like bigger problem. I have no idea how much food does baby pangolin need and how many of them you must feed, but as I said you can't harvest only one little colony + you should wait more than a year before you start to collect workers.
About how would you catch them - just put any sorce of food into the arena, wait few minutes and it should be full with ants.



This is a good overview of ants world I would suggest you to watch it.

Also ants Canada's tutorials could be helpful!

[Martialis]

Here's some information regarding Anoplolepis custodians:

 

http://www.antwiki.o...epis_custodiens
 

 

Also the site Hymenoptera online might be of benefit. It is a collection of online scientific articles from hundreds of authors around the world. Here's a link to this website:

 

http://hol.osu.edu

Edited by Martialis, March 27 2017 - 4:21 AM.

[Leo]

my grampa used to catch them and let them go again, my mom said he usually finds dead ones where the local hunters hunt, he would bury the bodies like a little grave