84 replies to this topic

[dspdrew]

There is going to be no more complaining and arguing about the prices on my GAN classifieds thread anymore; that's not what it's there for. Instead of locking it, I have moved the pollution over here where everybody can continue their arguing if they really feel they must.

[Alza]

cremetagaster is so not worth 40$ watch nobody buy that 

[Gregory2455]

Alza, I have seen Crematogaster sell at 60.

[Alza]

-.-

[Alza]

60$ cremetagastor queen ? no no no. None of these queens are worth 60$ they are all over southern california, so you just have to wait till next year for the flights or dig up a colony

[Gregory2455]

You would be surprised Alza.

[Alza]

of what ? him over pricing his queens??? i actually am suprised that he does it 

[dspdrew]

First of all, I don't know where you got $60. The Crematogaster are $40. These ones are worth more to me anyways, they are so far the largest Crematogaster species I have found yet. I spend about six hours straight feeding all these things. I'm constantly cleaning out test tubes and moving them around. it's a lot of work, it's not the queen itself that you're paying for, it's taking care of them to the point where I know the colony is healthy and producing.

[Alza]

what ? your making them pay more to waste money that they could've used on food. who would want to spend 6 hours feeding one colony, tsk tsk your making this difficult to buy for some. also for the 60$ ^^^^^^^ look 7 comments up. that's what "^" is saying

[dspdrew]

I see. it's hard to keep up with the threads when you treat them like a chatroom. I sold plenty Crematogaster for $40 last year. I am not feeding one colony for six hours, I'm feeding hundreds, and my time isn't free. If they are not worth 40 dollars to you, then the best thing to do is not buy them and find your own.

[Alza]

i plan to do so

[Gregory2455]

Sorry Alza, but don't you think is is very rude that you say his time, money, and effort is not worth it? I personally would charge a lot more, and I am having a very hard time giving that Solenopsis xyloni for just 30$. I think Drew has every right to remove the last six or so posts, and he should.

[Alza]

i never said his time wasnt worth it. i said the prices werent worth it, and with your 30$ deal its not a lose lose situation. your getting about 3 other queen ants in return. but i do understand you love your colonies, that's understandable 

[dspdrew]

Haha, thanks Greg.

 

Alza, everybody has their values and opinions, so "worth" is completely subjective; that's the great thing about the free market. Trading is never a lose-lose situation, as a matter of fact, it isn't even a win-lose situation, it's a win-win situation. If it wasn't, there would be no deal. Again, something's worth is all subjective, but if a trade is made, then short of any scamming or dishonesty, both people are always better off.

[Mercutia]

Alza, I want to make few points addressing the pricing of colonies.

 

First of all, colonies being priced for $30 is quite a deal in my mind considering last year I was selling colonies for $100+ each (and even a select few this year). Depending on the species and how coveted they are can increase or decrease the price. Yes, serious ant keepers looking for specific colonies are willing to pay those prices because they ARE worth it. They are worth it because sometimes people can spend years looking for a specific species without success of raising them. I know because I have been trying and trying with Crematogasters (my favorite) for a long time now and during the time, I would have paid a hefty amount just for one colony.

 

Second, the time and effort most people take to find queens doesn't generally compare to Drew's commitment. I find my queens in my local neighborhood which is fine for me and it does help that my boyfriend is interested and keeps his eyes peeled for me too. Drew goes out to the boonies of nowhere for hours on end. He spends how much on gas and maintenance just to get to these places to find these specific ant species. That requires a lot of dedication for just a hobby. His return on selling a colony is minimal at best and most certainly barely (if at all) covers his expenses just to get there. You forget that just because you go out there and spend the time and the money doesn't mean you're guaranteed on finding any queens at all. Often times he will probably come home empty handed. That's a lot of money and time to spend on coming home empty handed.

 

Thirdly, you don't take into account the many queens that don't make it through the founding process. It should come as no shock that no matter how many queens we find, many will not survive. Add that to the expenses that Drew pays just to go looking for them.

 

Fourthly, the prices Drew has listed are probably some of the cheapest I've ever seen for ants and that's global. I'm talking everywhere around the world that sells ants, Germany's Antstore, GAN in different regions, etc. I don't even sell ants for as cheap as his go for, mostly because I don't have the stock to and most of the colonies I sell I don't necessarily want to sell but I still want to make available for the public that is desperate to get into the hobby but unable to find their own queens. Just recently I was looking into getting a Crematogaster queen for $150 from a friend.

 

If you think his prices are "not worth it", simply don't buy them. Go find your own queens as every GAN farmer will encourage you to do. We didn't get into the ant trade to steal your money or overprice things or scam you. There really is no money to be made in this business. We do it to spread the hobby to those who do not have the means or knowledge to find their own colony and queen. The price is mostly to cover our own expenses and resources invested in caring and finding them. If we have a few extra colonies, we put them on the market so that other people might participate as well.

 

It's just very irritating being told that the prices we list these colonies are "not worth it". If they're not worth it to you, walk away. Simple. The way I see it, clearly if there are many people still willing to buy it at that price, they must be worth it.

[Alza]

"If you think his prices are "not worth it", simply don't buy them. Go find your own queens" i believe i recently stated that's what i was planning to do. and if your selling queens for 100$ think about the people out there who don't have money, your going to turn down a future ant lover cause he's broke ? that's sickening. i wouldn't price my queens, just promote caring for them. We think two different ways, but overall my way is superior when it comes to promoting the cause, isn't that right ?

[Alza]

you say gan farmers want to promote ant love, but this proves otherwise. if you truely love your queen ant make a tutorial on how to care for it before you sell it to someone. in the US many have lost lots of money, the fact that they wouldn't be able to get a queen from you saddens me. Also i read 25% of queens die from stress of being caught. 50% from natural causes. when you keep them there are No other ants killing them unless you war them, no mites in there unless you provide them, No stress unless you anger them. if somebody didn't know how to care for a queen they would end up stressing it to death. Not saying all gan farmers are bad, but when you said 100$ for a queen, normal families can't afford that, and i think that price is insane, and your in it for the money. i don't understand why you would go through the trouble of typing that you spent lots of time looking for ants then you sold them all for 100$ why not keep them ? DSPDREW has many queens, and he isn't in ant love for the money. my point is i don't believe in 50+ for ants, an btw not saying your completely in it for the money, you might love ants, but your using peoples love to lure in more money then it should be worth 

[Alza]

and with Gregorys offer, he's not pricing it over what he needs. he needs the 30$ for a queen, and i completely understand that and i am whilling to pay it. in my eyes 30$ is a fair amount for a queen.

[dspdrew]

All of Mercutia's assumptions were 100 percent correct. She explained it about as good as I could have, just left out the part about getting stuck in a flash flood. People have no idea how much trouble I go through to get these, and the amount of work it is. Even if you think you know, you still probably don't. Just to get an idea, my last anting trip, I drove a total of 650 miles and I came home with pretty much nothing. If anyone wants to Google it, I drove from Costa Mesa, CA, to Blythe, CA, then to Brawley, CA, back to Blythe again, and back home to Costa Mesa--650 miles. I also drive a truck that gets about 13 mpg. Bottom line is ant keeping is a hobby, and like most hobbies, it costs money. If you don't like it, then don't participate.

 

I would also like to point out that all this complaining is being done on a forum that I have put tons of work into for free. This forum actually costs money to run even, and do you see any ads? No.

[Mercutia]

you say gan farmers want to promote ant love, but this proves otherwise. if you truely love your queen ant make a tutorial on how to care for it before you sell it to someone. in the US many have lost lots of money, the fact that they wouldn't be able to get a queen from you saddens me. Also i read 25% of queens die from stress of being caught. 50% from natural causes. when you keep them there are No other ants killing them unless you war them, no mites in there unless you provide them, No stress unless you anger them. if somebody didn't know how to care for a queen they would end up stressing it to death. Not saying all gan farmers are bad, but when you said 100$ for a queen, normal families can't afford that, and i think that price is insane, and your in it for the money. i don't understand why you would go through the trouble of typing that you spent lots of time looking for ants then you sold them all for 100$ why not keep them ? DSPDREW has many queens, and he isn't in ant love for the money. my point is i don't believe in 50+ for ants, an btw not saying your completely in it for the money, you might love ants, but your using peoples love to lure in more money then it should be worth 

 

Your complaints are juvenile. We encourage people to find their own queens because it's part of the ant keeping experience. And there are PLENTY of tutorials on AntsCanada's channel (the guy who runs the GAN program). He has quite a few videos on how to catch, maintain, handle, care, feed, etc queens during the founding process and these are ALL available for free. To this day he is still making tutorials for ant keeping. When I sell a colony to ANYBODY I always encourage them to contact me with any questions on care and maintenance and direct them to other care videos and tutorials they can find online FOR FREE. So your assumptions are completely false. The assumption is if you want a brand new pet, you've at least done the bare minimum on research like any mature and responsible person would, especially if you are planning to spend money on purchasing a colony.

 

And did you not read? Half of the colonies I personally list are my own personal colonies. Colonies I would rather not part with but I get frequent requests when I am sold out for people who are desperate for a colony. These are colonies I DON'T want to sell so I list them at $100-200 because I don't want them to sell but you'd be surprised how desperate some people can get so yes, I'll part with them if they mean that much to a person to spend that kind of money. If you're saying normal families can't spare $100 then I think you're being naiive. You don't need a TV, that's over $100. You don't need to buy your ants over $100. Which btw I have plenty of colonies listed for much under that amount during times where I have stock of spare colonies. This hobby isn't really for normal "families". Most people that are serious about this hobby are adults. Adults that are serious about keeping ants and not just raising them in a gel farm because they want to see them dig for a bit and then die. These are pets that are going to last you quite a few years, not just die within the year. It's like going to a pet store and complaining that they are selling a lizard for $500 when you can go out to the desert and catch one yourself. And yes Drew has a lot of queens. You have to, especially with certain species like Pogonoymyrmex who have a very high failure rate. Even after the founding process there is still a very high failure rate so they are his own personal colonies and Drew has every right to keep those colonies for himself.

 

And your readings about queen deaths can be quite wrong then. You can do everything right in keeping a queen. No disturbances, complete darkness, proper food and care per species, etc but queens will still die. Parasites and mites most definitely can occur even in captivity. Your assumptions are all very false. I get the irking feeling that this is your first time in the hobby because you've made a lot of very wrong and false assumptions about the hobby.

 

It is beyond rude of you to come to this forum that Drew owns, and pays for out of his own pocket and complain that he sells his ants for exorbitant fees when they are some of the most reasonable prices I've ever seen on the market. You're just lucky you have an ant seller in your area at all. There are many regions in North America who don't have a registered seller who would spend hundreds just to get their hands on any queen at all. When I first started ant keeping it took my two months of agonizing hunting and tears before finding my first ant queen. And that's a person who has the time after and in between classes to look. To this day I would still pay a hefty sum for a Crematogaster cerasi colony of my own but I guess that's how much I love my ants that I'm willing to spend that much on them.

 

Do you think someone pays me to sit on these forums and answer questions about identifications, care, etc? No. I do that on my free time. I do that to help encourage and help new people in the hobby and to keep this hobby alive. Do you think someone pays Drew to write up journals for all his different ant species he keeps? Did you ever question why he does it? He does it to educate and share his experiences with others. If he makes a mistake in their care he reports it so others don't make the same mistake.

 

You've made so many false assumptions about the hobby and what it takes to find and raise queens it is beyond ridiculous. If you can't spend $30-$50 on a colony, you most definitely can't afford the resources it takes to maintain and raise a colony even at the bare minimum.