29 replies to this topic

[noobkeeper]

What do you guys think about capturing wild colonies? Is it a really bad thing to do or will the removal of only one colony not change anything?
I think that if you take only one colony from a field in the countryside, it isn't be really bad. However, I don't really know if i should or should not do it. What's your opinion on this? Should wild colonies be left alone?

[jsCoder]

I think that to take the colony from nature is bad practice, because, first - colony can be with a parasites, second - damage to nature and third - the wild colony difficult to adapt to home conditions (this is my personal experience:) ). 

For me the best up the colony from queen, it is more interesting But if you really want the big colony, catch a queen, and attach cocoons from a large wild colony + more chances that the queen survive  

[Leo]

i emptied a plant pot to retrieve a large pheidole colony, got paid for it 

[Antsinmycloset]

In general, I think everyone agrees that going out of your way to collect mature colonies is less than ideal. Odds are good you'll do significant harm to the colony and not even find the queen.

That said, if you spend any time anting, you're eventually going to run across colonies in their founding or second year. You may find small colonies in potted plants, like Leo. I found a HUGE colony of Tapinoma sessile the other day, and fairly easily collected a few queens, some brood, and maybe a hundred workers.

These fledgling colonies are not only fairly easy to collect, but you may even be able to collect the vast majority of the workers/brood, easing up that ethical responsibility. Very young colonies (supposedly) adapt to captivity well, and are obviously proven to be fertile. Is this much worse than grabbing a queen off the sidewalk? I have some misgivings about it, but still did it. They're all doing far better than any queens I've collected, too.

Sooo, I dunno.

[Leo]

if the colony is in a twig then no probs

[Vendayn]

There are exceptions.

 

Is the ant invasive? Fair game, unless there are laws (like in California there is a law against taking Solenopsis invicta) against it.

 

Is the ant colony in danger of urbanization? I find this fair game, but only if you don't keep them and just relocate them. I have relocated many Pogonomyrmex colonies and other ants from ALL the construction (tons of it going on) around where I live. Of the 14 Pogonomyrmex colonies I've relocated, 5 are thriving. Sadly, the rest did not make it. However, where they were is now millions of Argentine ants and new apartments, so ALL of them would be dead anyway. Even though only five colonies survived, that is 100% more than 0 colonies surviving where they were.

 

I tried saving Dorymyrmex bicolor as well, but they always die. I tried twice, but each attempt failed.

 

I saved one Myrmecocystus nest down in San Diego (years ago) from construction. It did really well, no idea how it is now though. I put a VERY large piece of flat sheet metal, water underneath and waited for over a month. I also put dirt around it and covered it slightly. Then on a warm, mid-Spring day, got the vast majority of the colony+the queen of course. I moved them into the apartment complex I was living in at the time, and they lived for over three years. No idea if they are still there or not though.

Edited by Vendayn, February 26 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[Works4TheGood]

Capturing a large colony takes all the fun out of it. You also lose all the learning experiences from growing the colony yourself. Even if someone offered me a large colony for free, I wouldn't accept it.

[Alabama Anter]

If colonies are very small, and you know you can collect them all (Like colonies in logs especially bigger species like Camponotus). I have dug up many small Solenopsis invicta colonies when they only had 10-50 workers. I wouldn't recommend it for all species, but for some, you will be rewarded.

[Nexus]

I am personnally totally against capturing wild colonies, even small ones.

First, it often leads to the death of the colony because it is usually done by impatient begginers who want to have big colonies very fast and who didn't do enough research on the species's needs or don't realize the work it represents. So it is taking a away the colony's chance to prosper.

Secondly, you cannot capture all the colony, there will inevitably be leftovers (which will die without their queen) or losses (difficult not to kill ants with a shovel).

Thirdly, the queen is often buried so deep, that the guy will give up, and leave, after destroying a nest and killing hundreds (thousands ?) of ants.

 

This said, there are exceptions :

- If it is for scientific purposes (made by scientists)

- If it is a polygynous mature colony, I can accept it.

- If it is an invasive species, it's good. You can even volontarily kill the workers and queens, I won't bother.

[noobkeeper]

I am personnally totally against capturing wild colonies, even small ones.

First, it often leads to the death of the colony because it is usually done by impatient begginers who want to have big colonies very fast and who didn't do enough research on the species's needs or don't realize the work it represents. So it is taking a away the colony's chance to prosper.

Secondly, you cannot capture all the colony, there will inevitably be leftovers (which will die without their queen) or losses (difficult not to kill ants with a shovel).

Thirdly, the queen is often buried so deep, that the guy will give up, and leave, after destroying a nest and killing hundreds (thousands ?) of ants.

Yeah that's what I thought also. And it's way more fun to watch a colony develop from a single queen.
So I guess I won't do it, thanks everyone.

[Goldsystem]

I have a captured wild ant colony at home, they have been growing nicely but to get that colony I ended up doing a lot of damage to other ant nests and wouldn't recommend doing it, nor will i be doing it again. just be patient and wait untill the queens are flying. 

[Kevin]

Crystals and I have talked briefly about capturing colonies, and I have some points to make and will add an explanation from her where it was okay to capture.

 

DON'TS:

 

- Dig up a mature colony with several hundred workers and even alates.

- Take a queen from a colony and leave the workers.

- Try to capture a colony where workers or the queen is hard to get to and could risk death or damage from the capture.

 

DO's:

 

- Invasive species

- Small (under 100 workers is preferable) easy to obtain colonies.

- Most likely doomed colonies (this is where Crystals comes in. I captured several founding colonies under the bark of a stump that had a huge, mature colony in the center where the alates most likely came from. Crystals said these colonies do not usually make it through their first year and in freezing temps with another colony inside, it is very likely these colonies were in line for suicide.

 

This is just my 2 cents on this topic, and others will have their strong opinions as well, and I respect them. Please, don't dig up a mature colony or capture one if possible or unless most likely benefiting the colony. Queens will fly soon, and every year.

[CrazyLegs]

If we all went out and started digging up wild colonies it wouldn't take long before ant populations took a big hit. Humans are by far the most damaging species on the planet and in our current numbers make the most significant impacts on nature. I'm guilty of having a dig in wild nests but never to the point of total destruction.

[Vendayn]

If we all went out and started digging up wild colonies it wouldn't take long before ant populations took a big hit. Humans are by far the most damaging species on the planet and in our current numbers make the most significant impacts on nature. I'm guilty of having a dig in wild nests but never to the point of total destruction.

Yeah, just look at South America and how...of the most common ants you can probably find...are actually not thriving because so many people eat Atta queens. That is right, last I heard, Leafcutter ants in parts of South America are actually doing bad BECAUSE so many people eat the queens down there. Even Myrmecologists and other scientists have eaten them (read one or two or did over on Antdude's forum), making Leafcutter ants even less thriving! Very hypocritical of the same ones to then complain about ant keepers endangering ants for whatever. Like I don't do it, but Antscanada releases native ants. At least in my opinion that person has no right to then complain about Antscanada, if they too endangered the ant ecosystem. At least for the ones who go there and eat Leafcutter ant queens or whatever other queen. I tried googling it, but it looks like it was a topic on Antdude's forum at some point or maybe a discussion within a discussion. I'd have to do a more thorough search and find the discussion on it on Antdude's place.

 

(edit:

Ah, here. Couldn't find exact topic on Antdude's forum, but there was a one or two posts about it and a thread, but not the thread I had in mind. But, this species in particular I guess is threatened...

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Atta_laevigata

 

So, it isn't just digging up wild colonies. If you are someone who eats queen ants or goes to a place to eat/try them, especially those threatened (like Atta queens, especially that of Atta laevigata), you are actually declining the ant population, therefor ruining the local ecosystem.

Edited by Vendayn, February 27 2017 - 7:24 PM.

[Leo]

a boy in my class said he tried fried ant queens and they tasted good, then asked me for my ant queens, i slapped him and proceeded to beat him up, i got detention but it was worth it 

[Alabama Anter]

a boy in my class said he tried fried ant queens and they tasted good, then asked me for my ant queens, i slapped him and proceeded to beat him up, i got detention but it was worth it 

You beat him up? 

[ctantkeeper]

Normally, I have a firm stance against this due to a majority of these mature colonies dying due to the stress that comes with being abruptly moved to an artificial environment from a natural one. However, some species tend to be more adaptable than others. Most Monomorium and Solenopsis species for example tend to transition quite well to captivity as long as the setup mimics the dimensions and textures (ytong / substrate as opposed to a smooth surface such as acrylic) of their nest / chambers in the wild. By managing to mimic their natural environment, most species found in both of these genera tend to thrive and if not, will survive for long periods of time before eventually fizzling out. In regards to the legitimate concern of stripping habitats of their native population, I would urge those that do this to practice responsible collection procedures (collecting from a variety of locations while trying to not collect to many colonies from one area at any given time, to do so sparingly and less often, to rebuild and "repair" damage nesting areas such as rotting logs, etc.). In some cases, I will seldom collect brood from mature, wild colonies in order to feed my captive colonies. When doing so, "repair" the nest after collecting, carefully examine brood for parasites, include a water source and several workers in their enclosure in order to care for the brood / feed the brood when not in use and only collect small amounts from any given colony while rotating colonies in order to allow them to properly heal. Only collect brood from colonies belonging to different genera than that of yours in order to avoid brood-boosting / adoption.

Edited by ctantkeeper, February 28 2017 - 7:11 AM.

[ctantkeeper]

I would also like to say that I feel as though raising a colony from one / several newly mated queens is the more enjoyable / enriching of the two methods. However, I would also like to acknowledge that this isn't always the most practical of the two options and that queens of certain species may be hard / nearly impossible to obtain on their own in the cases of species of ants with alternate mating habits, such as those that mate underground or produce colonies via budding.

[Leo]

 

a boy in my class said he tried fried ant queens and they tasted good, then asked me for my ant queens, i slapped him and proceeded to beat him up, i got detention but it was worth it 

You beat him up? 

 

yep, little migit

[MichiganAnts]

I de-bark fallen logs and catch year 1-3 colonies and i don't see an issue with it. i don't chop open large logs to go after the large colonies in my area.