10 replies to this topic

[Toastedliverbits]

Your all right. I don't know what I was thinking.

Edited by Toastedliverbits, February 10 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[sgheaton]

I'm fairly new to the game but I figured a good rule of thumb is just do what the "natural normal ants" do. As soon as I seen ant movement around my neighborhood, I'll bring things out. 

[Toastedliverbits]

Drugs are bad.

Edited by Toastedliverbits, February 10 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[PanFormicaryProject]

 

I'm fairly new to the game but I figured a good rule of thumb is just do what the "natural normal ants" do. As soon as I seen ant movement around my neighborhood, I'll bring things out. 

But these aren't wild colonies they aren't going through the same things as the wild ants and as they become more dependent on us they are going to change and evolve to suit their new environments that are free of any unexpected draw backs.

 

What I'm saying is the ants in the wild have no choice but to Indore the harshest of times, but that doesn't make it best for ants. We can provide the ants with perfect conditions and eliminate long drawn out winters that they would have to survive in the wild and give them more suitable conditions.

 

In essence, these colonies that we keep are still wild in that they act and respond to stimuli as they have evolved to. You mention captive ants evolving to a captive environment, but that sort of domestication takes a very, very long time and hundreds of generations. Ants are great improvisers in that they can adapt to new locations quickly, but when it comes to something as ingrained in their biological systems as hibernation/diapause, its best to follow the lead of the wild ants. When they know the time is right, so do you.

That's just my oppinion anyway.

[Toastedliverbits]

Got to keep you fellows on your toes. Forum was getting boring.

Edited by Toastedliverbits, February 10 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[Reevak]

If your winter lasts for 6 months do you keep your ants hibernated for 6 months? I personally don't think so. If the winter lasts and extra month would it be wise to leave them in?

Again I don't think so. What I'm trying to say, is they don't have to be subjected to such harsh conditions. The Camponotus sp. I keep do just fine with 5 - 8C they do not need to be subjected to -30C. Just because they indore this in the wild doesn't mean we have to do this to expect the best results.

Just because it happens in the natural setting doesn't mean its best. We are learning everyday different techniques to keeping ants and as we do we find what's best for them. Mother nature is flawed, and I think we can improve upon it.

Why subject a colony to 6 months of hibernation because it happens in the wild, the longer the hibernation the more stress is put on the colony to survive resulting in deaths and weakness. The queen needs a break but I don't think she need this long to do so in such harsh conditions. Queens will rest all through the year, to rejuvenate before the next batch of eggs. Not to say she doesn't need a full shut down once a year, just not so prolonged. We can keep their environment 100% stable mother nature cannot. I don't think it's best to always copy the natural ways.

 

And while were on natural ways, I don't think one of us one thought about the ants when it comes to foricariums, it's all about how it looks on a desk. I don't think plastic, ytong, cement, grout, plaster, or any of the other many materials used to make formicariums are natural to nest in and probably have some negative effects on the health of a colony.

 

I think if we are going to progress this hobby we need to treat these tiny creatures with the upmost respect, I want to give them the 100% best possible chance of survival.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you should put your colonies through 6 months of -30 degree Celsius conditions. They are simply arguing that its still good to let them hibernate for some duration of time because the queens often produce better results (more brood, less likely to die, etc.) if they do have a hibernation period. Also, the underground temperature is not the same as the above ground temperature. I don't think a colony is very likely to survive -30 degrees Celsius conditions. Temperature underground is much more consistent year round than you'd think (if you go far down enough that is, not 6 cm underground). I'm sure its cold for the ant colonies but not nearly that cold.

[AnthonyP163]

If your winter lasts for 6 months do you keep your ants hibernated for 6 months? I personally don't think so. If the winter lasts and extra month would it be wise to leave them in?

Again I don't think so. What I'm trying to say, is they don't have to be subjected to such harsh conditions. The Camponotus sp. I keep do just fine with 5 - 8C they do not need to be subjected to -30C. Just because they indore this in the wild doesn't mean we have to do this to expect the best results.

Just because it happens in the natural setting doesn't mean its best. We are learning everyday different techniques to keeping ants and as we do we find what's best for them. Mother nature is flawed, and I think we can improve upon it.

Why subject a colony to 6 months of hibernation because it happens in the wild, the longer the hibernation the more stress is put on the colony to survive resulting in deaths and weakness. The queen needs a break but I don't think she need this long to do so in such harsh conditions. Queens will rest all through the year, to rejuvenate before the next batch of eggs. Not to say she doesn't need a full shut down once a year, just not so prolonged. We can keep their environment 100% stable mother nature cannot. I don't think it's best to always copy the natural ways.

 

And while were on natural ways, I don't think one of us one thought about the ants when it comes to foricariums, it's all about how it looks on a desk. I don't think plastic, ytong, cement, grout, plaster, or any of the other many materials used to make formicariums are natural to nest in and probably have some negative effects on the health of a colony.

 

I think if we are going to progress this hobby we need to treat these tiny creatures with the upmost respect, I want to give them the 100% best possible chance of survival.

To be fair, most winters do not last 6 months. Evolution is always happening, so as climate changes, so do the ants mind. Not to be rude, but I feel like this topic isn't very useful unless trying to start a debate. 100% best chance of survival is not putting in your ants for 6 months. Formicariums come from many different people and places, and they are all usually different. It is the antkeepers choice of what formicaria they use. Maybe try a naturalistic setup, if youre really serious about this kind of topic. THA for example has very natural formicaria, with hydration that gives the same experience to the ants in captivity of the ants in the wild. Tetramorium are probably very used to humans and that kind of stuff, because they live in or around sidewalks. Ants learned to adapt to humans, and they probably will learn to adapt to climate change. Most hibernation periods are 3 or so months, and it works for most ants, unless they are tropical. 100% survival is also not avoiding hibernation, or only hibernating them for a short time, either.

 

Thanks (:

Edited by AnthonyP163, February 8 2017 - 3:24 PM.

[Toastedliverbits]

Really great responses thanks everyone

[Mdrogun]

Evolution does not happen this quickly. It takes many, many generations of ants for them to change their instincts. Instead, what is likely happening is the colonies outside are not getting the full hibernation. While they can still carry on it is probably affecting the lives of the workers, queen and a lot of other aspects about the colony. 

 

 

 

Why subject a colony to 6 months of hibernation because it happens in the wild, the longer the hibernation the more stress is put on the colony to survive resulting in deaths and weakness. The queen needs a break but I don't think she need this long to do so in such harsh conditions. Queens will rest all through the year, to rejuvenate before the next batch of eggs.

This is absolutely not true. Ants do not get stressed out from hibernation. Ants need their full hibernation and I don't understand why you think that it puts stress on the colony to hibernate. That would be like me saying "Better make sure I only get 8 hours of sleep. 11 hours would stress me out too much." It doesn't make any sense. In places like Southern California where hibernation is not a need you will see benefits from hibernating your colony. The queen will lay more eggs and the colony will live longer. It's the same in the north except hibernation is a must. I understand that hibernation is annoying. We all love our colonies. But by inadequatly hibernating them you're only going to hurt the colony in the long run. I am confused as to where you are getting most of this information about hibernation. None of it seems scientifically based at all. A common thing ant keeping "noobs" do is inadequatly hibernate your colony. In fact, BatSpiderfish made a post not too long ago about how you need to fully hibernate your colony. I would advise other ant keepers against shortening your colony's hibernation time. It is not good for them. Secondly, ants evolved to be perfectly adapted outside. There is a reason why certain species like Linepithema humile do better outside than in captivity. They are so well adapted for the wild they have a hard time in captivity. A lot of these claims you are making are quite false. Have you ever kept a colony in dirt and a colony in a artificial setup? The colony in dirt almost always does better.

Edited by Mdrogun, February 8 2017 - 3:58 PM.

[Alabama Anter]

Evolution does not happen this quickly. It takes many, many generations of ants for them to change their instincts. Instead, what is likely happening is the colonies outside are not getting the full hibernation. While they can still carry on it is probably affecting the lives of the workers, queen and a lot of other aspects about the colony. 

 

 

 

Why subject a colony to 6 months of hibernation because it happens in the wild, the longer the hibernation the more stress is put on the colony to survive resulting in deaths and weakness. The queen needs a break but I don't think she need this long to do so in such harsh conditions. Queens will rest all through the year, to rejuvenate before the next batch of eggs.

This is absolutely not true. Ants do not get stressed out from hibernation. Ants need their full hibernation and I don't understand why you think that it puts stress on the colony to hibernate. That would be like me saying "Better make sure I only get 8 hours of sleep. 11 hours would stress me out too much." It doesn't make any sense. In places like Southern California where hibernation is not a need you will see benefits from hibernating your colony. The queen will lay more eggs and the colony will live longer. It's the same in the north except hibernation is a must. I understand that hibernation is annoying. We all love our colonies. But by inadequatly hibernating them you're only going to hurt the colony in the long run. I am confused as to where you are getting most of this information about hibernation. None of it seems scientifically based at all. A common thing ant keeping "noobs" do is inadequatly hibernate your colony. In fact, BatSpiderfish made a post not too long ago about how you need to fully hibernate your colony. I would advise other ant keepers against shortening your colony's hibernation time. It is not good for them.

I couldn't put it better myself.

[Serafine]

Too little hibernation results in less eggs, smaller workers and less activity, also the queen might die earlier (although I doubt that most people will actually go the full way and keep their colony for 10+ years).