28 replies to this topic

[Simtoon]

Why does mikey bustos hate our friends at https://www.gamergate.com.au

 

He keeps deleting our posts that relate to it 

 

Please ants canada lets make peace 

Edited by dspdrew, December 17 2016 - 6:35 PM.
Fixed uppercase title

[drtrmiller]

Just so everyone is clear, I think this post is about silly Facebook drama.  Probably very few people here are going to know what's going on, or have any opinion on the matter.

 

But really, more posts were deleted from his group?

Edited by drtrmiller, December 15 2016 - 11:34 PM.

[Simtoon]

Just so everyone is clear, I think this post is about silly Facebook drama.  But really, more posts were deleted from the group?

 

All mikey does is delete posts from gamergate

[AntsCanada]

Lol this is a topic? I don't hate Gamergate at all and love what Brendon is doing. He was recently banned from an ant group on FB for breaking one of the major rules, i.e. posting about selling/importing/exporting ants. We may have differing opinions on things but we both love ants and the hobby. That is all that happened and nothing elsse. No hate at all and no drama.

Edited by AntsCanada, December 15 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[AntsCanada]

*else.

[Batspiderfish]

While I wouldn't say it "changes everything", at least you seem to be taking some high ground over Ants Kalytta, who have been caught smuggling hundreds of ants out of Australia. Still, an export license does not equal an import license, and the only people who are going to benefit from this are yourself and those who are already able to import ants.

 

Having said that, fascination with exotic ants is pretty symptomatic of somebody who barely knows anything about their local species -- all of the energy and resources that go into obtaining somebody else's local ants could have been spent on discoveries within their own ecosystem. Anyboody who thinks local ants are boring can't see the forest for the trees. AntsCanada doesn't want that.

Edited by Batspiderfish, December 16 2016 - 6:04 AM.

[Batspiderfish]

https://www.gamergat...2016-have-begun

 

This is not in the Dolichoderinae subfamily, by the way. Looks like something from Formicinae. The antennal segment counts don't match up to Doleromyrma.

 

Hence why ant trade faces serious problems to begin with.

Edited by Batspiderfish, December 16 2016 - 6:27 AM.

[Loops117]

oh man. I just love seeing these posts about you mikey. All caps in the title, or some public shaming.

 

Kids annoy the (censored for drew) out of me.

[AnthonyP163]

This topic was pointless, except to obviously get Mikey's attention. It's a simple misunderstanding.

[drtrmiller]

I have a number of strong opinions on what is happening here.  But before I delve into them, I would like to separate out the facts of this specific situation from the broader—and I think more important—point that I would like to make, immediately following:

 

Case-specific facts:

 

I've said publicly and privately that an import and export license are both required for ants to be legally sold and shipped to buyers.  A responsible company will both defer to the judgment of individual states in how they issue such import licenses, as well as incorporate other externalities, such as the contentiousness of exporting ants to amaeteur hobbyists, before any exchange of goods takes place. Based on my discussions with the owner, I am certain Gamergate understands this 100%.

Currently, Australian ants only come into places like Europe through the black market, where the sole obstacle to obtaining them is the huge pricetag. If irresponsible, amateur hobbyists were the only market for Australian exports, Mikey would be right to ban such individuals from his group—but that's not the case. Being able to export from Australia legally, sustainably, and ethically, now means that North American and European museums, universities, and ant research labs will have a legitimate opportunity to display or study native Australian ants, and one can expect a pretty big commercial market for that alone, consisting of mature adults with generally flexible corporate spending accounts.

So, given the fact that Gamergate has only just announced that they are seeking to export, without any public details of how such a service would operate, or to whose benefit, we should condemn the decision to de-platform and isolate the site owner—who, in my opinion, is a quite mature and responsible individual—for allegedly expressing the desire to recklessly export ants to amateur hobbyists in other countries, when there's literally no evidence that this has happened yet, or would ever happen.

Let's assume, as Mikey apparently has, that Gamergate did intend to export to qualified hobbyists (say in Canada, where it's apparently easier to obtain an import license, for obvious reasons related to climate), even though Gamergate hasn't advertised as such yet. Well, as a mature and responsible individual, the exporter would be quick to learn of the possible legal and logistical challenges, never mind the extreme contentiousness within the scientific and hobby community (as evidenced by this reaction to the announcement), and would then reassess how best to accommodate all the parties involved to reduce, or ideally, eliminate conflict.

The problem here, with the facts I have, based on both public and private information, is that Mikey simply "banned" the Gamergate owner/author without any warning, and with no opportunity for education or explanation, as he does anyone who advertises the sale of ants not also advertised though his "Global Ant Nursery," or GAN program. While that is Mikey's right as the group administrator, it should also be said that the rigidity and callousness to which the zero-tolerance policy is applied will be sure to send disruptions and discord throughout the community both as we see now, and into the foreseeable future. If future Gamergate blog articles, unrelated to the sale of ants, are prohibited from appearing on the largest antkeeping hobbyist group on Facebook, in the same way that those grey and black market dealers and links to their respective websites are banned or taken down, then essentially, one individual (with a commercial conflict of interest, mind you) is picking and choosing who gets seen, and who remains hidden and obscured, which leads me to a more important point:

 

Broader point, opposing vendor-run communities:

 

As commercial vendors (Tar Heel Ants, Ants Canada, AntStore, etc.) continue to accumulate power and influence through social media, private groups, and business ventures, their ability to decide who's allowed into the mainstream online communities, or who's relegated to the fringes, will have an increasingly chilling effect on the ability of gifted hobbyists, makers, thinkers and innovators to be discovered, to succeed in connecting with antkeepers like your and me, and to remain as independent operators, free from monied influence. In my view, the designation of Gamergate as a prohibited resource in the largest, vendor-run Facebook group for antkeepers, and the banishment of its owner/author, would appear to be mainly a business decision made under the guise of scientific ethics, and that decision should alarm any and everyone with a stake in this hobby and community.

Independent forums and blogs like Formiculture and Gamergate will continue to be the only platforms where ideas may be promulgated freely, and individuals seen or heard, based on the popular merits of their contribution(s), with relatively little censure. Given the failed attempts by Ants Canada to absorb and acquire both (Formiculture and Gamergate), we should enjoy these freedoms while we still can.

Edited by drtrmiller, December 16 2016 - 3:53 PM.

[FSTP]

A very salient post and message drtrmiller.

[Alabama Anter]

Welp more complaining!!! Welp I will now run a buisness of selling cancer repellent to everyone! $60.00 for 6 spray bottles!!!

[Kevin]

Welp more complaining!!! Welp I will now run a buisness of selling cancer repellent to everyone! $60.00 for 6 spray bottles!!!

Please keep the forum clean, this post alone is worse than the thread itself. Please learn how to act properly in public.

[Serafine]

Welp more complaining!!! Welp I will now run a buisness of selling cancer repellent to everyone! $60.00 for 6 spray bottles!!!

Continue like this and the Discord server will not remain the only place you've been banned from...

[Goldsystem]

Man oh man I'm sorry you've been publicly attacked so much lately mikey

[Solenoqueen]

Man oh man I'm sorry you've been publicly attacked so much lately mikey

So true

[AnthonyP163]

Man oh man I'm sorry you've been publicly attacked so much lately mikey

 

 

Yeah, now I feel bad I contibuted

 

btw, some of you might not know, but I'm the same age, as Alabama anter.... don't hate please  

[Reacker]

To those of you expressing unhappiness with Mikey being "publicly attacked" in this thread I would point out that while the original poster was hyperbolic in expressing his sentiment, drtrmiller's post contained not a personal attack but rather a well composed criticism of Mikey's actions in administering a public forum. The concerns iterated by drtrmiller seem to be shared by others in the ant community and it is quite reasonable to expect that Mikey should answer to these criticisms.

 

No one should be immune from critiques of their actions when they affect everybody in the larger community regardless of how nice a person they are

 

Edit

And to Alabama Anter: If you are unwilling to stop being toxic in threads that actually have relevance to you, please do the rest of the community a favor and stay out of the threads that are unrelated to you. Your attitude and general conduct are an embarrassment to yourself and to anyone else that has the misfortune to have their names and text appear anywhere near yours. 

Edited by Reacker, December 16 2016 - 9:45 PM.

[T.C.]

DELETED

Edited by T.C., September 17 2022 - 2:18 AM.

[T.C.]

DELETED

Edited by T.C., September 17 2022 - 2:17 AM.