20 replies to this topic

[kakkak11]

Hi, am from Italy, and i think i just found 3 queens. I took them and brought them home, the most common ants in my surrounding area are (from a little google search): asdasd

       -Ochetellus;

        -Linepithema humile;

        -Lasius niger;

        -Tapinoma sessile;

       -Tetramorium caespitum;

       -Monomorium pharaonis;

 

I found them near some Palms tree, a couple hours before, it rained, i just got out from school and i sat on the bench, when i saw one ant extremely big, surrounded by other littler ones. Then i looked again and i saw two others, i picked them and closed them in a little box. On the way home i ventilated the box around ten times, so they would not die. 

As soon as i got home i built a little terrarium to keep them in, around 40x20 cm with a Cm of dirt not very compressed, i put inside the 3 queens and one other pretty big and i found with them, not as big though, only his head was big (it does not muve much though). I put in a ball of wet cotton, some crackers crumbs and very tiny pieces of peach and apples, a bit of grass and some leaves of a plant I made sure is not toxic, both for shelter and for building maybe (?).

Now, i know they need a new colony sometimes, and these three were just wondering, I am here to ask two things basically (the ants are currently outside in the terrarium, covered with a lid full of holes (no, they can't escape). 

 

-is the temperature outside ( 20 degrees celsius )  too cold for them, should i put them inside?

 

-is it safe to keep 3 queens together in a small artificial habitat?

 

-one actually made a hole in the ground, entered and crouched, another and is constantly wondering between inside that hole with a queen inside and outside in the surface, another one ant i cannot find, it can not be under the leaves, i checked, maybe it's in that hole too, what is happening there? Is the behaviour normal?

 

-i did not get any ants from near them, as i could not identificate what was the original colony of them three. Is it bad? Didn't the queens leave the colony to found a new one? 

 

I'll post a few pics, they are blurred because those devils run fast, I placed a piece of paper to create contrast, the pic was not succesful though. One is clear enough, i shot it in a moment the ant was still, sitting in the dirt though.

 

 

https://500px.com/ph...rco97kalinowski

 

https://500px.com/ph...rco97kalinowski

 

https://500px.com/ph...rco97kalinowski   

 

 

Sorry for the image quality, i did not want to stress them out much, so i just didn't try hard enough, if it incomprehensible to determine the specimens, i'll try harder with some professional equipment.

 

PS: they do not have wings.

Edited by kakkak11, October 21 2016 - 8:35 AM.

[Batspiderfish]

The images aren't working for me.

[kakkak11]

Reuploaded under a different domain, i apologize:

 

Edited by kakkak11, October 21 2016 - 9:00 AM.

[CallMeCraven]

More information on your location, ecosystem type they where found in (grass, duff layer, wood, etc) and size (preferably in mm) of the ants will be helpful. I am inclined to think that this is a Tetramorium spp. When you can get more clear pictures, people with far more experience in this realm will come to help/correct my ID. Here are some answers that I can provide w/o an ID:

 

1) 20c is not to cold for them. Their actions will slow down the closer you get to 15c, as that is the temp range they will enter hibernation (assuming they are a species that does hibernate).

2) Generally, it is advised to separate your queens as it is more common for queens in general to not be polygynous. An actual ID will help with this decision.

3) Queens in nature will seek to for claustral cells to start their nests. These are often small chambers which the queen will dig in the top soil, so I would say the behavior you are observing is completely normal. The missing ant may have already formed a cell and sealed it off so you can no longer see her.

4) Normal queens do not require workers from adjacent nests, as they will lay their own brood which will eventually develop and care for her. Social parasites, however, require existing colonies to accept them into their colony, where the social parasite queen will start her own brood and eventually try to take over the nest. It looks like you do not have a social parasite.

 

I look forward to more clear pics and some more details. I hope this helped some.

 

Edit: I just saw your new member post which stated you are from Italy. Welcome!

Edited by CallMeCraven, October 21 2016 - 9:30 AM.

[Batspiderfish]

Looks like Messor to me, but would you please also include a measurement?

[Canadian anter]

I would have said crematogaster but I think messor or possibly manica are more reasonable

[kakkak11]

More information on your location, ecosystem type they where found in (grass, duff layer, wood, etc) and size (preferably in mm) of the ants will be helpful. I am inclined to think that this is a Tetramorium spp. When you can get more clear pictures, people with far more experience in this realm will come to help/correct my ID. Here are some answers that I can provide w/o an ID:

 

1) 20c is not to cold for them. Their actions will slow down the closer you get to 15c, as that is the temp range they will enter hibernation (assuming they are a species that does hibernate).

2) Generally, it is advised to separate your queens as it is more common for queens in general to not be polygynous. An actual ID will help with this decision.

3) Queens in nature will seek to for claustral cells to start their nests. These are often small chambers which the queen will dig in the top soil, so I would say the behavior you are observing is completely normal. The missing ant may have already formed a cell and sealed it off so you can no longer see her.

4) Normal queens do not require workers from adjacent nests, as they will lay their own brood which will eventually develop and care for her. Social parasites, however, require existing colonies to accept them into their colony, where the social parasite queen will start her own brood and eventually try to take over the nest. It looks like you do not have a social parasite.

 

I look forward to more clear pics and some more details. I hope this helped some.

 

Edit: I just saw your new member post which stated you are from Italy. Welcome!

Thank you for your response and your cordiality.

They were found on a muddy and usually humid flowerbed with in it some palms and grass, they were picked up from the sidewalk basically, far from the palms, so i really doubt the nest was in the palms or near.

I included some more photographs right now, I'm sorry, sadly my compact camera broke and i could't shoot the photos in macro. I used the reflex but they are still pretty far from being detailed hope even in that case, you will be able to identify the exemplars 

 

[kakkak11]

If you could confirm me that these are queens, and that they are not ''Social Parasites'' as @CallMeCraven suggested, so they are capable of develping their own Brood, I will asap proceed to separate them in individual chambers provided with honey and wet cotton. Tomorrow i will buy the Test-tubes in the case these are actually queens    (damn i'm so excited )

[Canadian anter]

These are definitely queens. I see that you noticed the small abdomen but these are not social parasites but on fact semi claustral

[Mdrogun]

These are definitely queens. I see that you noticed the small abdomen but these are not social parasites but on fact semi claustral

This queen is definitely Messor. I'm 99.99999% sure that Messor are claustral. Why do you think she's semi-claustral?

[CallMeCraven]

With the better pictures, I completely agree with spiderfish that it is a Messor spp. possibly Messor bouvieri although I don't know if that species if very prevalent in Italy. In any case, Messor spp. are fully claustral, which means you just have to get her into a test tube set up with water and she should be good to go.

 

If you could confirm me that these are queens, and that they are not ''Social Parasites'' as @CallMeCraven suggested, so they are capable of develping their own Brood, I will asap proceed to separate them in individual chambers provided with honey and wet cotton. Tomorrow i will buy the Test-tubes in the case these are actually queens    (damn i'm so excited )

 

I am for sure 100% that she is not a social parasite. They do have the possibility of being polygynous, but I would still separate so you don't have any potential queen battles if this particular species isn't  . Good luck with your new queens! 

 

Edit: A quick google revealed very little on Messor bouvieri aside from pictures found on antweb. I was mainly looking for info if the species was polygynous, as several Messor species are, however, I found nothing on that subject. I would still separate them like my above suggestion to play it safe.

Edited by CallMeCraven, October 21 2016 - 3:25 PM.

[Enderz]

Those are definently queens, and a social parasite is still a queen, it just takes over another queen's colony and then acts as the original queen, just for clarification .

[kakkak11]

I thank you all for the answers! The test tubes should be home this evening, I'll proceed and divide the queens and make 3 nests, OR, since they seem to be cooperating for now, i'll make a nest with one queen, and another one, bigger, for two queens (?).

I'm very sorry for you all, but your answers generated a little more questions  . The queens dig into that 1.5 cm soil i gave them, and if i lift the transparent box, i can see they are working all 3 in the same gallery. What happens if when i dig a little bit for them, i find eggs? Is it safe to relocate them in the test tubes even not knowing who of the three layed them? Will the spawnlings fight other mothers? How much time will be required for a Queen to lay eggs in the first place? What if a queen laid eggs already? Is there a cooldown for laying eggs again? 

 

EDIT: i just recieved the news that the test tubes wil not be home until monday, am i risking the queens lay eggs in the current location? shall i relocate them? Can i place one already in a very rudimental ant farm i built now (alone)?

   

 

EDITagain: I just found 3 packed standard sterile syringes, i already set them up with watered cotton and a drop of honey, i am relocating the ants there now. 

Edited by kakkak11, October 22 2016 - 6:39 AM.

[Runner12]

I agree, those are definitely Messor queens

[Canadian anter]

I think you should feed tham anyways

[Mdrogun]

I think you should feed tham anyways

Why? That will just stress the queens out. The queens are claustral.

[kakkak11]

Today i checked into their syringes, i added little water and left a drop of honey JUST IN CASE, i have seen these two videos that got me a little bit educated in caring about queens

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JMWxDHBu0c8

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=WErTN2e2eUk

 

I am checking in the box they are kept every day, in the morning and in the evening, am i stressing them too much?

[NightsWebs]

I usually leave the queens alone for the first week and then Ill check them about every 4 days. It keeps them settled down.  Good luck with your new queens.  The forum here has lots of experienced keepers along with some great videos. I also recommend Ants Canada videos on youtube.

[Runner12]

I would be careful with honey. Messor are harvester ants, they don't usually encounter honey or sweet things in the wild, I would stick with seeds and insects. (If you feed them at all.)

Also, I have had several queens get stuck in honey and drown in the past

Edited by Runner12, October 24 2016 - 1:42 PM.

[kakkak11]

It was really just a little tip, given with a toothpick, 1/4th of their head, not to risk any accidents! 

Thanks for being so helpful, i think the thread can be closed