35 replies to this topic

[Loops117]

I'm down here now in the keys. So, i've done a little research and visited a refuge.

 

Turns out they're using the GMO plan to eradicate the screw worms. The keys have also approved trial use of GMO Mosquitos

 

This is an exciting moment.

[Mdrogun]

I don't know if this is true but I remember hearing somewhere that they could release GMO mosquitos that would only give birth to male mosquitos and then their babies would be exclusively male and so on. If this is true, it seems like this would by far be the best option.

[Loops117]

It's similar to that. What they're doing is releasing batches of sterilized males. These males will mate with the females, and the females will lay infertile eggs. After so many batches, the population will dwindle down to nothing.

[Serafine]

Problem with Mosquitos is that you have to do this in a VERY large area. Mosquitos can drift over THOUSANDS of miles with the high upwinds, similar to what spiderlings do. As long as you eradicate them in just one area they will sooner or later pop up again. So if want to really eradicate a specific species you'll have to think VERY big.

And you have to make sure that they cannot get a foothold again in the places you've already dispelled them from, maybe by making harmless Mozzies fill their natural spots, so that that when they come back there's just no ecological niche for them.

[kellakk]

Problem with Mosquitos is that you have to do this in a VERY large area. Mosquitos can drift over THOUSANDS of miles with the high upwinds, similar to what spiderlings do. As long as you eradicate them in just one area they will sooner or later pop up again. So if want to really eradicate a specific species you'll have to think VERY big.

And you have to make sure that they cannot get a foothold again in the places you've already dispelled them from, maybe by making harmless Mozzies fill their natural spots, so that that when they come back there's just no ecological niche for them.

 

Mosquitoes are only dangerous when they transmit diseases. I think the focus of mosquito eradication is, and should be, the mosquitoes that tend to live around humans. These mosquitoes, like Aedes aegypti, are often both invasive (so eradication will have minimal impact on biodiversity) and more importantly are disproportionately more likely to carry diseases.  If we put in place a program of continual sterile male release in population centers, we can greatly minimize the risk of mosquito-borne diseases despite not completely eradicating the species worldwide.  We can only hope that the species that fill the empty niche left behind will not vector diseases.

[koeng]

We don't necessarily need to wipe out the mosquito population to wipe out the diseases they carry, it's just the easiest/lazy solution. With advances in gene drive technologies, we just need to find genes that are essential for carrying pathogens or genes that prevent pathogen infection. Pretty much the solution that we have right now is that the genes essential for carrying pathogens can be destroyed just by destroying all the mosquitoes. However, gene drive technology is pretty simple, and I can definitely see some rogue biologists simply releasing drives into the environment to destroy the populations. If they come back, just release a few more mosquitos to rinse and repeat. 

 

Targeted eradication with gene drives is actually EXTREMELY easy and VERY cheap. A dedicated DIY guy with $10,000 I say could easily wipe out a population. The problem is is that we don't have as much experience as we have with pesticides. You release a gene drive into the environment... and it literally becomes a 'mind of it's own', evolving to maximize it's own spreading. There are no breaks (right now). Even worse, the gene drive would hypothetically be effective enough to decimate the population within a year or 2, and we don't even know what that could do to the environment. Pesticides might be bad, but if things with them get too bad we can put it on hold for a while. The amount of money you see getting spent on these GMO mosquitos isn't on the actual creation of the mosquitos, it is paying the bills of the scientists, technicians, regulatory fees, extremely tight lab safety (I remember reading they locked fruit flies behind 3 locked and sealed doors to prevent drive spread), implementation costs, media costs, extensive testing costs, etc etc etc. Someone is going to release a drive in the future, I just hope they are responsible. Pouring down pesticides down a stream to kill mosquitos in small pools can kill everything downstream, putting a gene drive in a single mosquito can destroy all the mosquitos in every stream for as far as the thousands of miles those male mosquitos can spread. Scary stuff.

[Serafine]

Actually even poisoning is already very specific. You can pack the poison in pellets that have exactly the size to be eaten by mosquito larvae and pretty much nothing else. This has already been tested and while it still can hurt insects (and ONLY insects because the poisons used have no effect on birds, fish or mammals) eating mosquito larvae it is VERY far from "just poisoning everything downstream".

 

Of course genetics can still be more effective (especially releasing infertile males) but releasing a genetically modified being into the wild is always a gamble (releasing sterile males is pretty harmless, but releasing fertile mosquitos that are immune to parasites/deseases and cannot transmit them is a HUGE gamble as nobody can tell how the mosquito population or the parasite will react to them in the long term).

[Salmon]

Mosquitoes don't really breed in waterways much. Any body of water that has fish or is permanent enough to host a healthy population of dragonfly larvae and other predators won't produce a lot of mosquitoes. Most mosquitoes come from small, stagnant pools of rainwater that won't be affected by pouring poison in a river. 

[Serafine]

That depends entirely on the species, they can have very very different needs. Some larvae can only live in flowing water, others can breed even in disposed car tires.

[Salmon]

As far as I'm aware there are no mosquito species that prefer flowing water, or even breed in it with any success. Certainly not the species that bite humans. As a rule, permanent bodies of water with healthy populations of predators produce next to no mosquitoes, while temporary bodies of stagnant water quickly yield huge numbers of them.

Edited by Salmon, November 24 2016 - 6:34 PM.

[koeng]

Actually even poisoning is already very specific. You can pack the poison in pellets that have exactly the size to be eaten by mosquito larvae and pretty much nothing else. This has already been tested and while it still can hurt insects (and ONLY insects because the poisons used have no effect on birds, fish or mammals) eating mosquito larvae it is VERY far from "just poisoning everything downstream".

 

Of course genetics can still be more effective (especially releasing infertile males) but releasing a genetically modified being into the wild is always a gamble (releasing sterile males is pretty harmless, but releasing fertile mosquitos that are immune to parasites/deseases and cannot transmit them is a HUGE gamble as nobody can tell how the mosquito population or the parasite will react to them in the long term).

When the mosquitos evolve smaller or larger mouths, the poison is not going to be very effective. Sure, you can wipe out a lot of the population, but since its niche is still there once a population acquires the trait, it's just going to come back. In addition, you won't be able to find all those temporary bodies of stagnant water, so there will always be a breeding population of mosquitos to come back and rebound the population once your poisons are gone. 

 

It is totally a gamble, but with our current technology, if we really applied, we could beat the evolutionary reaction of many diseases by spreading more drives. Like a genetic war. Although, yes, releasing infertile males has less of a risk, but isolated populations will likely quickly return to fill that niche, and unless you have a long term plan, I think (naively, no data to back this up) that the mosquitos are just going to come back. The gamble we take with immunity to diseases only eliminates the niche of human diseases, which is ok to get rid of. 

 

 

 

As far as I'm aware there are no mosquito species that prefer flowing water, or even breed in it with any success. Certainly not the major pest species that bite humans. As a rule, permanent bodies of water with healthy populations of predators produce next to no mosquitoes, while temporary bodies of stagnant water quickly yield huge numbers of them.

As far as I'm aware there are no mosquito species that prefer flowing water, or even breed in it with any success. Certainly not the species that bite humans. As a rule, permanent bodies of water with healthy populations of predators produce next to no mosquitoes, while temporary bodies of stagnant water quickly yield huge numbers of them.

 

I meant for the example to just show that poison can have many more unintended effects, while genetic methods can be overly effective.

[Air]

From what I've seen, I think we should just establish male mosquitoes who can breed, but the young will die once born. This will allow mosquitoes to stay on the food web, and not cause a huge die off of certain species of animals. The poison would also most likely kill many ants, small animals, insects, plants, and a lot more. If we want to risk all that, be my guess, but it would cause catastrophic damage. Fish, birds, insects, plants, and other things rely mostly on mosquito larvae, so if they are eradicated what would happen to them? It's all a play of preference, but I think we should do it so it won't effect our ecosystem too much.

[Air]

I honestly think we should just make some kind of male that can remove the poison from mosquitoes, making it so they won't bite into us, but instead find some kind of plant to eat.

[Serafine]

As far as I'm aware there are no mosquito species that prefer flowing water, or even breed in it with any success. Certainly not the species that bite humans. As a rule, permanent bodies of water with healthy populations of predators produce next to no mosquitoes, while temporary bodies of stagnant water quickly yield huge numbers of them.

 

Some Culex sp do, usually it's the ones that also prefer colder oxygen-rich waters (I studied parasitology for 2-3 years, Mozzies made a good part of it). You can find them hanging on stones where water flows over, usually at small water-fallish areas with higher water speeds. And yes, they bite humans, too.

[Vendayn]

Maybe its just me. But, trying to wipe out all the mosquitoes doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

In truth, I don't know much about them. But, everything on Earth (except Humans) is supposed to be balanced with each other. I am pretty sure mosquitoes are relied on for a food source for many species of animals or insects.

 

This reminds me when they tried to introduce a beetle in California to fight another insect they introduced, but the beetle has destroyed countless acres of forests. This happens a lot when Humans interfere or mess with nature.

 

I have a feeling if they do try to wipe out all the mosquitoes and are successful, people will quickly realize what a big mistake it was. Its happened with killer bees, the tree eating beetle and countless things.

[SamKeepsAnts]

no matter how hard you try you can't spray poison  on every one of the hundreds of billions of mosquitos on earth any one who tries is either incredibly stupid or

is just trying to reduce the population of mosquitos not eradicate them which is impossible without GMOs or nuclear bombs (lets hope no one tries that