10 replies to this topic

[T.C.]

I am currently in need of an emergency formicarium for my ants. Does vaseline work as a border, anyone here have experience with it? If so, how much shoul i use?

 

I also don't have any fluon available right know so that's not a option!

Edited by T.C., September 23 2016 - 8:53 AM.

[AntsMAN]

If vaseline doesn't work try baby powder mixed with alcohol, worked really well for me before I got fluon.

[dermy]

I tried it's messy and doesn't really work for the ants i have, Myrmica just walk right up it, and if they have any substrate in the foraging area they will grab it and make bridges over the Vaseline.

 

 

I currently use canola oil, works well, you have to re-apply it every few weeks though.

[Chandlerk]

Scent free additive free talcum powder mixed with 70% alcohol

[drtrmiller]

Scent free additive free talcum powder mixed with 70% alcohol

 

70% alcohol denotes the concentration of alcohol to water in the alcohol solution.

 

While I haven't yet experienced satisfactory results from such mixtures, if someone does report success, the most useful measurements would be the amount of each ingredient, by weight—eg. 1 g talcum powder, 5 g alcohol—as well as the exact preparation and application method.

Edited by drtrmiller, September 23 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[sgheaton]

The idea being to dissolve the powder in the liquid, apply, and have the volatile alcohol flash off leaving behind the powder? 

[drtrmiller]

The idea being to dissolve the powder in the liquid, apply, and have the volatile alcohol flash off leaving behind the powder? 

 

That's the theory.  The problem, with what I've experienced, is that the resulting residue is a dense cake.  

 

It's not the material itself that causes the ants to slip, but rather the arrangement of the particles. Talcum powder can be an effective barrier when the dry, microscopic particles are dusted onto the surface, because they are small and loose enough to fall off when a relatively heavy ant attempts to cross (they also reportedly interfere with the hairs and oils on the feet of the ant, but that is another discussion).

 

Imagine trying to scale a vertical cliff that is lined with small, loose rocks that break off every time you grab them to attempt to pull yourself up.  Such a barrier naturally has poor longevity, since the ants will try repeatedly to escape, eventually displacing enough of the looser particles so as to pass.  Finally, determined ants will lay pheromones, much like a trail of breadcrumbs, when exploring new territory, accelerating their escape when even the smallest weak point in a barrier has been discovered.

Edited by drtrmiller, September 23 2016 - 12:14 PM.

[T.C.]

Would vegtable oil work?

[Vendayn]

I found the only barrier to work is fluon with olive oil underneath it (not above it). Olive oil works vastly better than vegetable oil. The trick is to heavily "paint" it on, then lightly dab/wipe it off with a towel to leave a thin, smooth surface of it left. I found nearly all ants (even Argentine ants and Solenopsis invicta) can't cross the olive oil when done this way. On top of that, the fluon adds another layer of escape proofing for ants. I heavily apply fluon (it can't be left on thick or it doesn't work), then dry it off a bit with a towel (not a paper napkin, but a dish towel works great) and this lets it be a thin, slippery surface for the ants.

 

I literally was able to leave the olive oil on for 6-7 months on my Pheidole megacephala colony I had, and it worked the entire time without it needing to be re-applied. But, humidity/temperature can change things, so your experience may be different than mine. I keep most of my ants in the garage where its always hot and dry in there.

 

Antscanada seems to have luck with vaseline judging by his videos, but he lives where its really humid all the time and that seems to work better for vaseline. I tried vaseline for Solenopsis invicta, and will NEVER use it again in Southern California. It was a complete disaster of ants escaping (they crossed it like it wasn't even there) and a long, multiple hours of a disaster of a cleanup.

 

With that said, not even fluon and olive oil works on Monomorium ergatogyna (pretty much exactly similar to Monomorium minimum over on the east coast). They are the best escape artists of any ants (better than Solenopsis molesta), and they are tiny. So, it all depends on the ant species as well.

 

A lot of it really comes down to trial and error, and different things work for different ants.

Edited by Vendayn, September 23 2016 - 7:27 PM.

[Chandlerk]

If you're really concerned top off your outworld / formicarium with a 100 micron wire mesh.

[Reacker]

Vegetable oil works reasonably well for medium sized ants and below. The larger the ant the more frequently you have to reapply it. Problem is that while very small ants such as S. molesta or smaller Pheidole species are physically incapable of crossing it without drowning, larger ants such as Camponotus or the bigger Formica are perfectly capable of running right over it when they want to. I think for these larger ants it works less as a physical barrier that they cannot safely cross and more as a barrier of unpleasantness in that they hate touching it and becoming coated with it. 

 

Examples: 

Smaller ants: S. molesta, assorted Pheidole, and T. sessile colonies with around 1000+ workers at various times were entirely unable to cross despite being kept in very small enclosures. Worked 100% of the time for smaller species in my experience with new applications being necessary only a few times a year. Tetramorium colonies were not successful in crossing the barrier but I believe that is because they mostly drowned before being able to do so. I had to reapply their barrier frequently. 

 

Medium ants: Various Formica species (I am bad at identifying species and have no interest in improving) that all demonstrated the ability to cross if moved into a panic by blowing or whatever. Some species happily stayed contained in colony sizes of a few hundred workers, others didn't. One particular colony I had at first 'respected' the barrier but after a few months of being in their enclosure decided that it wasn't a problem and I found myself putting stray workers back into their enclosure several times a week until I got sick of waking up to the occasional stray worker crawling on me and ordered fluon. 

 

Larger ants: Camponotus vicinus in particular seemed to detest making any contact with the oil barrier but demonstrated similar ability in crossing the barrier if they were in a panic. I've never kept a large colony of Camponotus so I can't really comment much. 

 

General conclusion: Vegetable oil is the best non-fluon barrier I've found, but you should still buy fluon as soon as you can. If you buy the smallest bottle from bioquip I think it would take you years of keeping many large colonies before you'd manage to run out. A little goes a long way.

 

Edit: Also vaseline was completely worthless. It also will eat away at acrylic if you leave it long enough.

Edited by Reacker, September 30 2016 - 4:33 PM.