11 replies to this topic

[RapaNui]

Dear All,

 

I am living in China, and have been receiving some requests to send formicariums from TaoBao to overseas.

I have decided to start "helping" out fellow ant keepers to get some cheap entry level formicariums, which I belive can work very well in combination with some more high level formicariums, or as a standalone.  

 

Since so many things can go wrong with TaoBao, I have decided to limit this help to only one seller only (one I have confidence with), later I will open to more sellers if things go well.

 

If you want to buy some formicariums (no live ants will be allowed) from this TaoBao seller please contact me and I will help you get the merchandise.

I will add a service charge of 8% on the final price. Shipping will not be taxed. Payment can be settled by Paypal (after confirmation of stock and shipping costs with seller).

 

Please go to this site:

 

https://antsclub.world.taobao.com/

Although the site is in Chinese, I think its really straight forward. 

Feel free to contact me, if you are interested in anything. 

 

Regards,

Martin

 

[ctantkeeper]

this sounds great, can i see you catalog of products you are currently offering?

[drtrmiller]

There is a reason these vendors have not expanded into the North American market at the price points offered to the domestic population (a few sell on Aliexpress at higher price points).  The business arrangement you are offering carries an extraordinarily high degree of risk for the customer, but probably even more for yourself as the middle-man.

 

Many of the products on the site you referenced are highly fragile.  Both acrylic, ytong, and gypsum products must be meticulously packed to withstand an industry-standard 1-meter drop test on 3 sides and 1 corner of the shipping container.  If something arrives broken, defective, or the incorrect or incomplete item is sent to the buyer, you, the middleman, will be 100% liable for the full amount of the transaction under PayPal Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) policies.

 

Are you taking on the role of providing customer service as well?  If not, it will be impossible for consumers to have questions answered before or after a sale, or receive customer support if something goes wrong.  Given the dumb questions I've had to answer from users of my products over the years, I can imagine many kids (your primary audience) having a very poor experience, and you becoming frustrated very quickly, as Johnny Appleseed pesters you incessantly over both precise and general questions, like how much water to inject where, and how long it will take for his Camponotus pupae to eclose, and whether he can wrap the formicarium in a blanket and put it in the freezer for hibernation?

 

When you factor that some of the products are heavy, making shipping cost more than the product itself, it quickly undermines the value of the service that you are supposedly offering.

 

I have no qualms with users helping others that they know very well, as you mentioned you have already done.  But when it comes to offering an incomparably risky business arrangement to the general public at large, which includes both the inept and naive as much as it does the studious and skeptical, I take serious pause.  I do not think you have thought this out very thoroughly.

Edited by drtrmiller, November 13 2015 - 4:02 AM.

[RapaNui]

I agree with you drtrmiller, I haven't thought of this very thoroughly.

 

The main reason I am doing this is because I get frustrated by the exorbitance some charge over their formicariums. When a kilo of 3d print costs 10usd and is charged x10 or more... same goes to acrylic and other materials. 

 

I got two choices, I keep my hands to myself or I take the risk and try to open a door for more people to have cheaper, not so well designed or versatile formicariums, but in my opinion a good trade for the money they ask.

100 RMB is approx 16 USD

This will never be a business for me for what I am planning to charge, but I guess that's why others charge so much. Some call it sharing passion and ant love but I feel its more about the $. 

 

I thank you for your opinion sharing, you have asked a lot of very good question to which I don't have the answer to if or when they happen. 

I will guess I will suspend this for now and let other members comment on it, and see how is the overall opinion.

Regards,

[drtrmiller]

There are a huge number of factors that go into costing products.  I can briefly cover a handful, here:

 

China and other countries (EU/AU/CA) that allow largely unrestricted shipping of ant gynes benefit immeasurably from customers being able to purchase both the "pet" and the habitat/accessories in a legitimate, regulated marketplace.  How big of a market do you think there would be for dogs if one had to go into the wild and steal a wolf pup?

 

In China, the market for ants is so large, and cheap labor so abundant, they are able to mass produce ant products and accessories at a scale that would be left to rot in U.S. warehouses at any price.  There simply isn't a large enough market in the United States, due to the government regulations on the sale of the "pet," for inexpensive ant products to be feasible—aside from children's toys.

 

Other externalities, such as decades of currency manipulation, make Chinese products a bargain in the U.S. market, while U.S. products remain prohibitively expensive in China. Just go inside any Chinese Wal-Mart and ask how many products they have that are made in the United States.

 

I could write a manifesto on why things are the way they are.  But it wouldn't matter one bit.

 

Trust me, no one—not even Mikey Bustos—is getting rich selling ant houses in the North American market.  And the thing is, all the key North American players are investing a lot of their own time, money, and other resources into product research and development, as well as making labor-intensive custom orders that are one-offs.

 

All these things, and more, make it clear that the North American market is a vastly different landscape than most anywhere else in the world.  Cheap imported products and poor customer experiences would serve no purpose but to dilute the already limited U.S. market, and accelerate the demise of a hobby that is already strangled by government overreach, fragmentation, and a whole host of other unique challenges that stretch well beyond retail price.

Edited by drtrmiller, November 13 2015 - 9:59 AM.

[ctantkeeper]

well, I'm not sure if you noticed my recent message, but I'm very interested in your program. shipping, however is a huge concern. if you can tell me what shipping will cost, i will definitely consider purchasing from your site. you products look fantastic!!!

[dspdrew]

...and whether he can wrap the formicarium in a blanket and put it in the freezer for hibernation?

 

[Foogoo]

That's cool you're willing to help others out! Aliexpress also has a few sellers who are willing to ship overseas. My experience with one of the primary sellers (kamelar life shop) is that they package it VERY well. Prices are about on par with other formicarium makers. I've only tried their acrylic nests since I'm wary of grout from unknown origin.

[Huch]

I am a big fan of competition. I think it drives the creation of better products.

[RapaNui]

drtrmiller, I understand all your raised points and because I am not in USA I am taking your opinion seriously since I am unacknowledged of the reality there. 

I appreciate all the members that also participated and raised interest in here. ctankeeper, Foogoo, Huch, thank you for showing support.

I have decided not to go forward with this. 

My initial idea was to provide alternative, but because I want to be a uniting member in this forum and not a splitting one, I will step back and keep myself to posting my ant experiences.

 

Is there anyway to delete or close this thread?

Thank you

[dspdrew]

If you want it locked, I can lock it. I normally don't delete content though.

[RapaNui]

Thank you dspdrew. There is nothing to add to this thread for my part. Sorry for the trouble.

Best regards,