22 replies to this topic

[laowai]

I am wondering if feeding pollen (aka pollen patties) substitute manufactured for use in honeybees to give them protein and essential nutrients will be alright to use as a protein substitute for weaver ants (Oecophylla smaragdina) or ants in general?

 

Weaver ants are the only natural pollinators in Cape York, due to the lack of bee pollinators there. This got me wondering if they are actually consuming the pollen? Anyway I would assume a pollen protein source would be better for them than whey milk products?

 

Just trying to minimize the need to kill insects every time I want to feed protein. I was thinking of buying this 'Bee build protein sausage' and dissolving it in water and feeding it to the ants in place of the sugar water, as I have read sugar water is lacking in essential nutrients, and when bees are fed sugar water they find it is an incomplete food.

 

Bee protein sausage: http://beebuild.com....itute-products/

 

I know bees are different to ants, but they are similar that I thought it wasn't too crazy an idea to at least try. My thinking is unless the pollen dissolves in the water( which I don't think it does) then this idea is a dud, but thought there was no harm in asking. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

[laowai]

I just found out you can buy bee pollen from health food stores and dissolve it in water- would this also be an adequate protein source? As it is already pre-digested by the bees so probably easier for the ants to consume and dissolves in water according to this article:

 

http://www.peashealt...inst-hay-fever/

[laowai]

Just found this study which seems to suggest some tropical ants do eat pollen! http://link.springer...0040-015-0402-x

[laowai]

Just found this stating that ants also eat the nectar from flowers, so perhaps even just giving your ants flowers could provide them with all the protein and amino acids they need from the flower secretions alone?

 

http://www.antweb.or...cia-wa-usa.html

 

I have read a lot of people who grow crops like peppers and zucchini mention finding ants all over their plants flowers- so who knows this could be an idea with real potential.

[laowai]

Answered my own question. According to google pollen can range in size from 6 microns to 100 microns.

 

According to this article the Carpenter Ant Camponotus pennsylvanicus can consume particles up to 100 microns in size. http://blog.wildabou...-ant-digestion/

 

So that would mean yes depending on their size it is most likely most ants can consume pollen. Especially weaver ants as they are about the same size as a Carpenter ant and I daresay that correlates with the particle size they can consume. This is such a great thing. Imagine how much more healthier our ants can be if we are able to give them all those essential nutrients, amino acids and calcium via pollen! No more killing! And maybe it will help someone keep weaver ants for longer than a year in captivity!

Edited by laowai, September 22 2015 - 7:36 AM.

[JakobS]

I would be hesitant to assume that because ants have been seen to eat pollen, that it can be given as the sole protein source. Weaver ants are generalist predators and thus are looking for different qualities and quantities of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats throughout the year. Being able to choose from a variety of insects and sugars is the best way to insure they will be able to raise healthy brood and workers.  I know this makes it complicated, ants are a rather complex insect family though, and require the variety to meet ever changing needs and pressures placed upon the colony. 

[laowai]

Oh yes I completely agree. I didn't mean pollen as a sole protein source. I know weavers are generalist predators and will consume carrion and insects. I just thought from the vitamin and amino acid perspective that pollen might be a valuable thing to add to an ant colonies diet. 

[laowai]

I think with nutrition there are no set rules, I mean look at how the vegetarian Rainbow Lorikeets here in Brisbane became carnivorous http://www.abc.net.a...experts/6337984

 

I can see people adding a few pieces of pollen to the standard sugar water in the future with great benefits. Maybe it will even become a common practice in the future. 

[dermy]

I would be hesitant to assume that because ants have been seen to eat pollen, that it can be given as the sole protein source. Weaver ants are generalist predators and thus are looking for different qualities and quantities of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats throughout the year. Being able to choose from a variety of insects and sugars is the best way to insure they will be able to raise healthy brood and workers.  I know this makes it complicated, ants are a rather complex insect family though, and require the variety to meet ever changing needs and pressures placed upon the colony. 

I have to agree there, nothing should ever be given as a sole protein source, variety is the key to any diet. Ants were made to eat insects and that's what they do

[laowai]

Well someone on another forum made this discover ages ago. and has pictures of brood with pollen in their stomachs, and the thread is almost a decade old.

 

The thread got two replies and that was it. Nobody investigated the claims further or tried to show an interest in the discovery.

 

It kind of makes one wonder why they even bother talking on ant forums. 

 

You have to admit this will be a good way to add much needed vitamins and amino acids to our ants diet, and complement the existing diet quite well. 

[kellakk]

This sounds like a good idea as a relatively easy way to add some protein to ant diets.  I may try giving ants whole flowers to test receptivity first though.

[stuhrike]

Well someone on another forum made this discover ages ago. and has pictures of brood with pollen in their stomachs, and the thread is almost a decade old.

 

The thread got two replies and that was it. Nobody investigated the claims further or tried to show an interest in the discovery.

 

It kind of makes one wonder why they even bother talking on ant forums. 

 

You have to admit this will be a good way to add much needed vitamins and amino acids to our ants diet, and complement the existing diet quite well. 

 

I don't know where you're from, but for some of us, you started posting at 6:22AM.  

Now, I honestly don't know where most people are from but I would guess a fair amount of us on here are from California...so...we were all probably sleeping or getting ready for work while you spammed your own thread with albeit, possibly useful information.  

Ant keeping isn't a gigantic hobby which means there aren't many of us.  On top of that, most of us don't spend our entire lives on here (especially since anting season is almost over).  

So chill.  Let people get to your post in time and welcome to the forum.

[dspdrew]

Also, since everybody has to have their own forum now, that just means even less people on each one unfortunately.

[drtrmiller]

Maybe I'll look into this.  Thanks for all the links.

[laowai]

 

Well someone on another forum made this discover ages ago. and has pictures of brood with pollen in their stomachs, and the thread is almost a decade old.

 

The thread got two replies and that was it. Nobody investigated the claims further or tried to show an interest in the discovery.

 

It kind of makes one wonder why they even bother talking on ant forums. 

 

You have to admit this will be a good way to add much needed vitamins and amino acids to our ants diet, and complement the existing diet quite well. 

 

I don't know where you're from, but for some of us, you started posting at 6:22AM.  

Now, I honestly don't know where most people are from but I would guess a fair amount of us on here are from California...so...we were all probably sleeping or getting ready for work while you spammed your own thread with albeit, possibly useful information.  

Ant keeping isn't a gigantic hobby which means there aren't many of us.  On top of that, most of us don't spend our entire lives on here (especially since anting season is almost over).  

So chill.  Let people get to your post in time and welcome to the forum.

 

Huh? I am talking about a thread on another forum where someone mentioned feeding pollen to their ants and it got one reply and zero response from the ant community. I wasn't referring to this thread getting no replies, but the other thread on another forum. I just found the other thread and it is almost a decade old, so it surprised me nobody else had found it or seen it. 

 

I'm just putting out my thoughts, before they are lost. 

 

My ant diet is going to consist sugar water( carbohydrates), water, bee pollen( amino acids, vitamins, calcium). And I will then add protein once a week in the form of freeze dried blood worms/ krill pellets/carnivorous fish pellets.

 

I may add the odd piece of fruit, hard boiled egg, insect, flower, beef or fish mince every once in a while for variety. 

 

I'm going to try keeping it simple and cheap. As part of the reason most people own ants is because they want a cheap easy pet alternative, well that is one reason why I plan on keeping them.

 

Happy anting. 

[Crystals]

I have offered granulated pollen to all of my colonies outworlds in the past.  They all dumped it in the garbage pile.

 

Formica podzolica/aserva/ulkei, Camponotus herculeanus/novaeboracensis, Myrmica, Aphaenogaster occidentalis, Crematogaster, and Tapinoma sessile.  None of them touched it, other than to dump it in the garbage pile.  I even tried moistening it with hummingbird nectar after they dumped it.  One or two drank the nectar and ignored the pollen.

Then again, none of these species are noted for intentionly transporting pollen.

[stuhrike]

That's cool laowai.  Just thought you were attacking us

But let us know how it turns out.  It'd be interesting to see and I'm sure drtrmiller is very interested in your work.

I'm curious too but I'm far too lazy to try it out.  Makes me curious since Crystals said solid form didn't work for her.

[William. T]

I got some before. My ants ignored it after a good inspection. 

[skocko76]

I got some before. My ants ignored it after a good inspection. 

 

The same. Not accepted by ants. Haven't tried dissolving it in water, though.

[skocko76]

 

I got some before. My ants ignored it after a good inspection. 

 

The same. Not accepted by ants. Haven't tried dissolving it in water, though.

 

I have dissolved it water today. It was stellarly ignored. 'nuff said.