47 replies to this topic

[Kit]

This may seem like a stupid question, but is it legal to keep the native US leafcutter ant species Atta texana in the US? Someone on another forum from the US has made an inquiry about keeping 'exotic' ants, and I told them how the US prohibits all ant imports, and how Australia is unhelpful when it comes to anyone making an ant inquiry; so I thought Atta texana would be an 'exotic' option and ok as it is already native to the US.

 

I know it is considered a pest species, but I have read leafcutter ants need constant tropical temps and humidity to survive, so it's not like the colony is going to be a pest species in the top half of the continental US. Plus there are insecticide treatments you can easily acquire and use on any 'pest' nest, so I am assuming it would be ok to keep this ant?

[Crystals]

Queens should not go over state borders.

General rules in the US say, if you find it in that state (and there is no town/county bylaw stating otherwise) you can keep it in that state.

[Kit]

Thanks for clarifying this it has been most helpful. No offence taken with any posts on here. I also found my answer on my enemies forum unfortunately http://antfarm.yuku....os#.VfgxEdKqqko

 

Just to clarify it is only legal to keep this ant in Texas. Bye.

[dspdrew]

I'm pretty sure the laws regarding ants pertain to transporting, not keeping.

[Mercutia]

Thanks for clarifying this it has been most helpful. No offence taken with any posts on here. I also found my answer on my enemies forum unfortunately http://antfarm.yuku....os#.VfgxEdKqqko

 

Just to clarify it is only legal to keep this ant in Texas. Bye.

Atta texana extends a little further than just Texas. I believe some were also found in Lousiana and the surrounding area.

[William. T]

It's not illegal. The laws want you not to transport gynes past state lines.

Edited by William. T, September 15 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[drtrmiller]

It's not illegal. The laws want you not to transport gynes past state lines.

 

Not true.  Any organism that causes "direct or indirect damage to plants or plant products" is forbidden from transport under the actual law.

 

USDA cherry picks what provisions to enforce, as well as how to enforce the statute, and so USDA guidelines differ from the text itself.

 

This is confusing to most people.  It is important to understand, however, that USDA guidelines are not law, but are simply an interpretation as to how to best enforce the law.

Edited by drtrmiller, September 15 2015 - 12:20 PM.

[William. T]

 

It's not illegal. The laws want you not to transport gynes past state lines.

 

Not true.  Any organism that causes "direct or indirect damage to plants or plant products" is forbidden from transport under the actual law.

 

USDA cherry picks what provisions to enforce, as well as how to enforce the statute, and so USDA guidelines differ from the text itself.

 

This is confusing to most people.  It is important to understand, however, that USDA guidelines are not law, but are simply an interpretation as to how to best enforce the law.

 

 

You misunderstand me. I meant that the law wouldn't allow him to transport queens past state lines. That is one aspect of the law. Officers stay on the safe side, so no queens can be shipped. 

[drtrmiller]

I did not misunderstand.  Again, the law does not specify in any way whether the plant pest can reproduce—only that it is an organism that can cause direct or indirect damage to plants or plant products.

 

Worker ants that can harm plants are covered under the law, since they are an organism—this is why USDA issues permits to businesses that sell Pogonomyrmex workers for use in children's ant farms.

[William. T]

I did not misunderstand.  Again, the law does not specify in any way whether the plant pest can reproduce—only that it is an organism that can cause direct or indirect damage to plants or plant products.

 

Worker ants that can harm plants are covered under the law, since they are an organism—this is why USDA issues permits to businesses that sell Pogonomyrmex workers for use in children's ant farms.

I was referring to the fact it is not advisable to ship queens across state borders. That's all. If the ants are kept within the state they are caught it is not illegal.

Edited by William. T, September 15 2015 - 6:07 PM.

[drtrmiller]

That depends whether or not the organism is a plant pest.

 

The highly specialized predator Odontomachus, for example, has little interaction with plants, and in my opinion could be transported across state lines.

 

Again let's be clear when talking about legal matters—the term to use is transport, not ship.

 

Also, the Lacey Act may be applicable for organisms that are prohibited under the Plant Pest Act, which could hold additional ramifications for the import, export, sale, acquisition, or purchase of said plant pests, even within the confines of the state!  It is important to understand the laws before engaging in discussions about them.

[Kit]

The US exists in a region where hot and cold air mixes. You get hurricanes everywhere. It's likely to conclude female alate of these species flying around are found blown into the gardens of people throughout the US on occasion. Use your imagination. Of course it is legal to keep this ant if a hurricane has blown a mated Queen into your yard. Stop being so OCD, allow leaf cutter ants to be kept in the hobby and watch it take off in the US. Anyway bye. 

[TheAnswerIsTheLogic]

come on no one will come to you house (police) to control you about formicarium ants. Police do real work not controling for ants.I don't think there are people around you who come at you and KNOW EXACT ANT SPECIES U HAVE and report you to police that is .....

If you had pheidole or t sessile yes but with this ant who are inofensive no one will do anything

[Ants4fun]

Kit, your last post makes no sense. It's like saying that Argentine ants are probably blown all over the states, so we should be able to transport then everywhere. The last thing we need, is another invasive ant. BTW none of us have the power to allow or not allow ants to be transported, so all we can do is speculate as to what the law means. Anyway, bye.

[Ants4fun]

GeniusNutella12 The question is not whether or not we can get away with it, but whether or not it is legal or ethical. Nobody would have guessed that Argentine ants would be so invasive. A large leafcutter ant colony can consume more than a cow. If that was Florida citrus trees, or other crops,farmers would get mad. Therefore restricting the laws even more.

[James C. Trager]

Kit:

Ants do not fly during hurricanes.

 

(PS - AntDude is not your enemy, though you seem to have set yourself up as his. How about just give it a rest?!) 

[Mercutia]

@James C. Trager:    rofl

[Kit]

Kit:

Ants do not fly during hurricanes.

 

(PS - AntDude is not your enemy, though you seem to have set yourself up as his. How about just give it a rest?!) 

James....the ever narcissistic academic. Great to hear more of your crap. What did you spend 3 years at Uni doing some half baked Science degree and now think somehow I have to listen to this. Not intimidated or impressed.

 

@James C. Trager:    rofl

Love how you singled out me as a racist, completely ignoring Servercheckers earlier extremely racist rant. In fact now I think about what Serverchecker said it is extremely offensive, he is basically stating he takes pride in speaking English better than a native speaker....and what other motive would he have for thinking like that than being racist himself, and so we finally see what antdudes little experiment was all about. You can't even see your own subconscious racism staring back at you....or perhaps if I had Penang, Malaysia as my location I would get a pass.

 

James and Mercuita you lose all credibility in my eyes. Play your little mod games on here, what do I care.  

 

Oh and Severhecker do you honestly believe I would ever care about how I command English to allow it to be a definitive trait of my own self worth? You sound incredibly pathetic right now; like seriously get a life. Hows that for zero tolerance moron.

 

People like antdude should be put down. I'm glad he has damaged the hobby beyond repair, and you can't even see it. Such delusion doesn't deserve any sympathy. I guess I will say goodbye the only way ants know how....

[Mercutia]

 

Kit:

Ants do not fly during hurricanes.

 

(PS - AntDude is not your enemy, though you seem to have set yourself up as his. How about just give it a rest?!) 

James....the ever narcissistic academic. Great to hear more of your crap. What did you spend 3 years at Uni doing some half baked Science degree and now think somehow I have to listen to this. Not intimidated or impressed.

 

@James C. Trager:    rofl

Love how you singled out me as a racist, completely ignoring Servercheckers earlier extremely racist rant. In fact now I think about what Serverchecker said it is extremely offensive, he is basically stating he takes pride in speaking English better than a native speaker....and what other motive would he have for thinking like that than being racist himself, and so we finally see what antdudes little experiment was all about. You can't even see your own subconscious racism staring back at you....or perhaps if I had Penang, Malaysia as my location I would get a pass.

 

James and Mercuita you lose all credibility in my eyes. Play your little mod games on here, what do I care.  

 

Oh and Severhecker do you honestly believe I would ever care about how I command English to allow it to be a definitive trait of my own self worth? You sound incredibly pathetic right now; like seriously get a life. Hows that for zero tolerance moron.

 

People like antdude should be put down. I'm glad he has damaged the hobby beyond repair, and you can't even see it. Such delusion doesn't deserve any sympathy. I guess I will say goodbye the only way ants know how....

 

1. A "Native English Speaker" is not a race, thus negating it being "racist". "Asian" is a race. Making generalizations about a person based on their ethnicity, or race like "Chinese" or "Malaysian" or "Asian" or "Black" is inherently racist. Making generalizations about "native English speaker" not racist because anyone can be a native English speaker despite apparent heritage or physical attributes or even geographic location. I am a native English speaker. I literally speak only English. I'm born and raised in Canada. I'm also Asian. Weird how that works eh?

 

2. You've blatantly been racist and yet you haven't seen how you've been racist makes me wonder if you actually know what racism is, sounds like, and looks like.

 

3. You mention before that countries like "Japan", etc were racist. Was anyone denying that people in other countries can't be racist? No. But here in North America, such generalizations and ignorance is not tolerated. Sorry for being so PC. If you are upset with how PC we are I'm sure there are many Australian ant forums that will gladly welcome you and your behaviour with open arms.

[AntsTexas]

what if u send your friend a nice plant/tree and it just happens to hav a queen in the dirt?