6 replies to this topic

[OhNoNotAgain]

I've been giving whole dandelion heads to various harvester ants (Veros/Pogonomyrmex) for some years. I noticed that younger colonies don't seem to know what to do with them.
In fact, in this video I also relate the funny story of this Veromessor pergandei colony from 2019, where one nanitic would painstakingly haul in a dandelion seed, and her sister in the nest would discover the fluff and haul it out as trash. I can't find photos/footage from that event, but this is my oldest Vero colony (coming up on 6 years old) and this is the process they developed.

All this to say - and I can imagine some more of you more experienced ant people may disagree - I have a theory ants have to learn how to (1) recognize dandelion seed heads as food and then (2) how to disassemble the seed head and process the seeds (taking off the fluff, etc). I'm sure some of what they do is hardwired, but I think a good bit of it is learned.

I really enjoy seeing how ant colonies learn over time (like my other "young colonies are dumb" story of the Camponotus fragilis figuring out fruit flies are food, not enemies).

Anyway here's the video ... I don't narrate so it's a ton of text to read through, sorry.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, March 25 2025 - 11:21 PM.

[Ernteameise]

I agree-

my Messor harvester ants needed to learn how to deal with dandelion seed, first. At first, they were very clumsy trying to get the flying part off.

The same is true for round seed- the first time I fed round seed to them, they did not know how to handle it, how to pick it up and transport it.

It definitely did not look as if there was a hardwired instruction manual programmed in their brain and they just took longer to extract the zip file.

They went through a trial and error phase and learned how to do it.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

I agree-

my Messor harvester ants needed to learn how to deal with dandelion seed, first. At first, they were very clumsy trying to get the flying part off.

The same is true for round seed- the first time I fed round seed to them, they did not know how to handle it, how to pick it up and transport it.

It definitely did not look as if there was a hardwired instruction manual programmed in their brain and they just took longer to extract the zip file.

They went through a trial and error phase and learned how to do it.

My question is do they all?
Like do you observe younger/newer ants having to figure it out, while older experienced ants around them already know what to do?
Or was there a point at which all workers of all ages, just did all know what to do now including the newest ones who could be known to be interacting for their first time with a dandelion?

Did it become knowledge they seem to all have now new and old alike, or is it clear each new worker to go outside has to figure it out for themselves?

[Voidley]

This is something I’d like to know too. I’m really curious about how ants learn: both as individuals and as a collective colony. I know of behaviors like tandem running, where experienced ants guide new workers to food/new nesting sites instead of them having to figure it out themselves. This definitely feels like teaching, so I wouldn’t be surprised if other behaviors (like how to process a certain food) could be taught and learned as well.

Perhaps you could mark a young worker and observe its initial foraging behavior for dandelion seeds. Then, you could track its behavior over time to see if it changes on its own or if it learns from its sisters. However, it may be hard to distinguish if it is self-teaching or being instructed.

[OhNoNotAgain]

I wish I had some easy way of marking ants! I can't even tell how old my Vero workers are. I want to label them by generation (well maybe at the granularity of "early 2025" and "late 2025") and see who does what where. That's why it's easier to see learning occurring in smaller, younger colonies. [EDIT: Mayyybe a special plexiglass nest cover with tiny holes, through which a very tiny pen can be inserted to mark ants???]

So I know I've told this story elsewhere, but I will relate it here. It's my other favorite ant/colony learning and transformation story:

 

Camponotus fragilis, also founded 2019. Young colony in a mini-hearth. I hooked it up via tubing to a separate larger outworld and put in live fruit flies there. The foragers apparently thought the flies were enemy ants! They sprayed them to death and immediately dumped them in the trash pile, like how you would treat an enemy ant, not food. This was very frustrating because I wanted them to EAT the fruit flies.

 

I finally put some fruit flies in the mini-hearth's small outworld on top. Then the forager ants had to drag their defeated foes through the nest. THAT was the key. The younger nursery ants recognized the fruit flies as food. I don't know how the memo went out, but VERY soon after the foragers brought dead fruit flies through the nest, suddenly the fruit flies became "food." They were no longer dumped in the trash - they were taken home.

Now, fast forward to later when the colony was upgraded to a Fortress (note: they currently reside in a Nucleus but I want to move them to a Laby), I saw some really cool behavior with live fruit flies. It LOOKED so organized and well-delegated. Fruit flies wandered all over the outworld, some high up on the wall. One ant ran back and forth on the outworld wall, knocking down fruit flies. Other ants below killed them and left them lying around. Other ants hauled them into the nest. I can't remember, but there may have been nest-internal ants then ferrying the corpses further (as with the Veromessor). There was a little "shop" set up in the nest to process the fruit flies.

 

Unfortunately I stopped giving live fruit flies because I started getting mite problems, buuuuut I really miss seeing that very complex system of independently acting parts, somehow coming together to form one incredible fruit fly collection and processing machine.

 

ETA: I have kind of the opposite, also in 2019 I believe. A dead-end colony of Camponotus sansabeanus that did NOT learn. I loved the big, angry queen. ANY sign of ANY bug, and her scared nanitics would run to hide in her skirts (well you get the idea) and she would storm out, mandibles gnashing, and go up to the mealworm or whatever bug piece I gave them. She would spray, and spray again, then, satisfied she had killed the invader, would march back to her nest. Her nanitics would crowd around her. You could imagine their proud but sadly confused conversation: "I have killed the enemy! We are safe!" "All hail Her Majesty, the Warrior Queen!" ...and meanwhile they never recognized the insects as food. I vaguely remember trying all sorts of protein but ... nope, everything was treated as The Enemy. They did not survive and I'm still especially sad about the Mad Queen.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, March 25 2025 - 10:51 PM.

[OhNoNotAgain]

So basically (just had to add a comment after writing up the story of the successful C. fragilis vs. the stuck-in-the-mud C. sansa) ... it seems like individual ants' varied genetic temperaments are very important to a small colony. If the population of first workers are 100% "dumb" (aka ants who don't realize basic things like fruit fly = food), the whole colony fails. But conversely, all it takes is even one young ant to have a clue, and the others can somehow learn. But it's a bit of a genetic lottery of whether an ant will figure something out. So the more ants, the more times you can spin the wheel and see if someone gets the clue. Once one ant gets it, the others seem to learn, at least with C. fragilis and V. pergandei.

 

(Speaking of which, V. pergandei is apparently notorious for foraging in huge columns. All I have to do is drop in a few seeds or a dead cricket piece, and it can trigger a huge column of ants to come out and try to climb out of the outworld to find more food. They display phototaxis in that I have videos of them following an LED light all over the outworld wall... this big black mass of ants behaving as a hungry liquid seeking the light... kind of surreal. Highlights how familiar yet how alien ant behavior is.)

 

I also want to know how the other ants learn from the first ant genius, though. I think with C. fragilis and V. pergandei there is enough in the way of chemical conversation to explain a lot of it. But still, how did the C, fragilis foragers get the message that fruit flies are food? How did V. pergandei learn to go up the stem to reach the seed, and pull them out?

 

At this point I want a laser etching device to just point-n-mark ants. That would be so helpful. haha

[OhNoNotAgain]

Oh I wanted to throw something in about the ability to adapt to new foods. I once had a couple Acromyrmex versicolor colonies (sadly gone) that had been raised on native local flora. This was all fine and well until they ran out. I switched to the usual dried clover and rose petals, but the foragers did not accept either (nor fish food, nothing). I took the clue from the C. fragilis case and eventually found the newly eclosed workers/youngest nursery workers and especially THE QUEEN would accept the new leaves. It appears that somehow, as with the C, fragilis, the younger workers are perhaps (I don't know if this is the right word) more "neuroplastic" (at least as far as food goes). Or at least more willing to try new things, like how a child can get used to a new cuisine, but an older person might not accept it since they didn't grow up with it. The queen was a bit of a surprise, but I guess Acromyrmex queens are adapted to accepting anything the workers bring home.

 

P.S. I like to contrast Acromyrmex queens with Prenolepis queens. Prenolepis queens are about the most useless queens I've ever seen. As far as I can tell, once they've settled into queen duties, they stop being able to feed themselves. I had queens who lost their last workers to a Tetramorium attack/escape, and they were never able to feed themselves. In contrast, the Acromyrmex queens saved their colonies numerous times by being willing to accept new leaves and gifts of fungus from other colonies. They also worked the hardest, cutting and folding the largest pieces of leaf and always seeming busy working on the fungus. While most queens' brains may shrink (Preno for sure), I'm wondering about Acromyrmex queens, and by extension Atta queens.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, March 26 2025 - 6:47 AM.