15 replies to this topic

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

So 5 months ago (October), I bought a Crematogaster cerasi colony of 5 workers from Canada Ant Colony, when they arrived, the came with 6 workers and a larva that they ate shortly after. I asked what to do with them and AntDrew said that I should allow them to stay up this winter because naturally, Crematogaster colonies should not have this low number of workers during their starting year. I ended up keeping them going during the winter, and what do ya know? The original nanitics started dying. Luckily during this period the queen laid eggs and by the time there was one worker left, a pupa enclosed and darkened in to a fully fledged worker, then the last original worker died… A week later, 3 more workers joined that new nanitic. Now they stay at that number with a few growing larvae (3 to be exact) What I am worried about is that I feel like the nanitics will end up dying and leave the queen orphaned, which form my knowledge and experience, will not bounce back without being brood boosted. The problem is that in the place I live, this species of Crematogaster only lives near the Ontario border and basically that is not near where I live. The other problem is that my Mom bought it for me and she is not exactly for keeping ants, and that is why I want to make sure they thrive. So yeah I am just asking for help because this colony is particularly important to me.

 

Right now I have offered them a variety of food, they don’t really care, they have more of an ON/OFF mode where some days they accept food and other no, I am giving them a constant supply of sugar (I see them take occasional sips) and a fresh water source, I am trying to heat them but nothing really changes, what I am worried about is that maybe they need a hibernation, but the problem is that winter is coming to an end and my Mom is a complete NO to sticking my ants in the fridge, one of my choices if they need a hibernation is asking my dad to stick them the mini fridge in the garage…

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, March 9 2025 - 6:57 PM.

[jo16]

what are you keeping them in, there nest might not be moist enuf.

I'm just guessing.

[RushmoreAnts]

Small colonies never accept large or even tangible amounts of food. If you're observing them eating at all, they're eating enough. If heating isn't an issue, then it's pretty safe to say the colony is genetically disadvantaged like 99% of all queen alates that have ever existed. Crematogaster as a genus is a very, very close relative of Tetramorium. I've kept Tetras and Cremas, and Cremas are essentially Tetras with flexible abdomens. Care and growth rate is pretty much the exact same. The colony I used to have grew just as fast as the Tetra colonies I have now, and the Cremas didn't need to hibernate either. A genetically fit Crema colony can get over 1,000 workers in their first season, very similar to Tetras. Keep tending to them; if they got workers in the first place, there's still hope for them, as that is a major milestone most of the 99% never achieve.

[AntsGodzilla]

Some colonies just have rough starts or are doomed from the beginning. Make sure to never feed them anything from outside, and make sure all fruits are 100% organic. Lack of diapause won't kill a young colony, it will just stop the queen from having a break, and they won't grow as much as the could have in the coming year. They might also be stressed from too much light, vibrations, the nest is to big for them, ect, so keep them in a dark place and let the colony have some peace. 

Edited by AntsGodzilla, March 10 2025 - 11:28 AM.

[RushmoreAnts]

Lack of diapause won't kill a young colony, it will just stop the queen from having a break, and they won't grow as much as the could have in the coming year. 

That depends on the species. Most Myrmicinae, including Crematogaster, neither need nor desire hibernation, and only do it if the climate forces them to. Most temperate Formicinaes such as Camponotus, Formica, and Lasius will at the bare minimum suffer immensely if not hibernated, and lack thereof could quite possibly kill them. It's that ingrained into their biological clock.

Edited by RushmoreAnts, March 10 2025 - 11:29 AM.

[AntsGodzilla]

In the past I've kept a camponotus colony without diapause one year and they didn't have any loses or viewable problems, but I do agree that diapause is necessary for certain species and will suffer without it.

[ANTdrew]

Beyond poor genetics, it could be a kind of stunting. Basically, what I mean is that for a Crematogaster to only have five workers by October, there must have been quite a bit of neglect. Just like a malnourished child can be stunted for life, this sort of neglect could stunt an ant colony’s growth.

[RushmoreAnts]

In the past I've kept a camponotus colony without diapause one year and they didn't have any loses or viewable problems, but I do agree that diapause is necessary for certain species and will suffer without it.

I mentioned temperate Camponotus. Most of California is not temperate, and most of its Camponotus would not need to hibernate, with the exception of mountainous species.

[kiedeerk]

I would argue that for all native Canadian species, a period of diapause would be beneficial. however certain species such as formica, lasius, and camponotus really need a good diapause to thrive or else the queens won't know when to restart egg production.

 

However, i have mentioned this many times, do not buy solo queens or colonies with few workers at the end of the season. They are most likely neglected, infertile, or with bad genes. I would really advise waiting and buy new queens when they first get their nanitcs.

 

I would even go as far as reporting or contacting these sellers who sells these queens or colonies knowing full well they are either neglected or infertile. 

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I think the colony is going to die….

I did one of those stupid beginner mistakes where I did not kill the food enough, I originally gave this small beetle larva thing to my Formica colony, when disturbed it raised its behind and the workers would look as if they sprayed themselves with acid, but they ended up shrugging it off, the larva ended up limping out of the nest so I killed it fully and gave it to the Crematogasters, I just came back to see that the queen’s legs weren’t working and a worker was also the same way, luckily the legs weren’t fully “dead” but they would still move so I ended up dumping the colony to a Petri dish and drenched the colony to remove the substance. I believe either the larva sprayed some sort of glue poison stuff or the formic acid from the other colony was still there… long story short, I did something really stupid, all the brood is gone, and the colony probably won’t recover from this. The only upside I have right now is the workers and queen is still alive and look to be doing better, but I feel like when I come back in an hour, I’ll see the queen and some workers dead…

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I would argue that for all native Canadian species, a period of diapause would be beneficial. however certain species such as formica, lasius, and camponotus really need a good diapause to thrive or else the queens won't know when to restart egg production.

 

However, i have mentioned this many times, do not buy solo queens or colonies with few workers at the end of the season. They are most likely neglected, infertile, or with bad genes. I would really advise waiting and buy new queens when they first get their nanitcs.

 

I would even go as far as reporting or contacting these sellers who sells these queens or colonies knowing full well they are either neglected or infertile. 

I bought them from Canada ant colony, The reason why I did not ask them anything is because of how it says that if they end up dying up to 2 weeks after I got them, the refund does not apply anymore.

[Ants_Dakota]

I would argue that for all native Canadian species, a period of diapause would be beneficial. however certain species such as formica, lasius, and camponotus really need a good diapause to thrive or else the queens won't know when to restart egg production.

 

However, i have mentioned this many times, do not buy solo queens or colonies with few workers at the end of the season. They are most likely neglected, infertile, or with bad genes. I would really advise waiting and buy new queens when they first get their nanitcs.

 

I would even go as far as reporting or contacting these sellers who sells these queens or colonies knowing full well they are either neglected or infertile. 

I agree with this for large scale ant sellers, as they do not physically have the time to care for all of their colonies. I do believe a distinction should be made when it comes to local ant sellers on this forum or others because you are able to ask them exactly when they caught their queen and if it seems to be fertile. For my shop each of my colonies comes with a sticker denoting the date they were caught so anyone who buys them can determine if they had bad genetics and got workers late. Another important distinction I would make is weather related. You mention not buying solo queens at the end of the season however here in the north, most queens that fly in August and September, unless specifically heated and kept out of diapause longer then in the wild, will not get workers until the next spring. Lasius for example will either eat their brood or overwinter with it. Because there is no grading system with ants though, kiedeerk's caution is important to anyone looking to buy commercially.

[bmb1bee]

I think the colony is going to die….

I did one of those stupid beginner mistakes where I did not kill the food enough, I originally gave this small beetle larva thing to my Formica colony, when disturbed it raised its behind and the workers would look as if they sprayed themselves with acid, but they ended up shrugging it off, the larva ended up limping out of the nest so I killed it fully and gave it to the Crematogasters, I just came back to see that the queen’s legs weren’t working and a worker was also the same way, luckily the legs weren’t fully “dead” but they would still move so I ended up dumping the colony to a Petri dish and drenched the colony to remove the substance. I believe either the larva sprayed some sort of glue poison stuff or the formic acid from the other colony was still there… long story short, I did something really stupid, all the brood is gone, and the colony probably won’t recover from this. The only upside I have right now is the workers and queen is still alive and look to be doing better, but I feel like when I come back in an hour, I’ll see the queen and some workers dead…

Yeah, the mishap was likely due to the formic acid remaining on the beetle larva. The Crematogaster colony probably suffocated to the fumes in their test tube or something.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I just came back and now they are doing absolutely fine, in fact the queen laid 2 new eggs

[kiedeerk]

 

I would argue that for all native Canadian species, a period of diapause would be beneficial. however certain species such as formica, lasius, and camponotus really need a good diapause to thrive or else the queens won't know when to restart egg production.

 

However, i have mentioned this many times, do not buy solo queens or colonies with few workers at the end of the season. They are most likely neglected, infertile, or with bad genes. I would really advise waiting and buy new queens when they first get their nanitcs.

 

I would even go as far as reporting or contacting these sellers who sells these queens or colonies knowing full well they are either neglected or infertile. 

 

It is common knowledge that certain species will diapause prior to laying eggs which includes lasius and crematogasters. 

For other species I would caution against buying solo queens and few workers colony at the end of the year. 

If I was a seller who is responsible and not in for just profits, I would not even put up colonies I know have bad genes or bound to fail. I know you can put stickers and let the buyer decide but many buyers do not have such knowledge. I would argue that 95% or more of buyers do not have such knowledge. 

 

Edited by kiedeerk, March 10 2025 - 4:09 PM.

[rptraut]

Hello OwlThatLikesAnts;

 

You might remember that I bought two Crematogaster colonies from Canada Ant Colony about the same time as you.   You can read about them in my Journal    RPT's Journal - Ant Keeping Journals - Ants & Myrmecology Forum

 

I put the largest colony (Cr3 -50+workers) in their winter storage almost immediately as they were already clustered and quiet.   The second colony (Cr2 -20 workers) was put into a formicarium and put on heat for about a month before I cooled them and put them in the root cellar.   On February 22nd I took Cr3 out of the root cellar and it took them a while to wake up, but they're now doing well.   I've found that they like crickets, flies, sow bugs, chicken, chicken liver, turkey and cooked egg yolk.   You might try feeding small amounts of any of these every other day to yours.   Heating them slightly will also help.  Cover them up and leave them undisturbed as much as possible.   If they have the ability, genetically, I'm sure they'll bounce back if you feed them well.   

RPT