4 replies to this topic

[bootsfirst]

Hey folks - hopefully this is just beginner's anxiety, but we're first timers and I'm pretty worried by what seems to be a really high mortality rate among our newly arrived Pogonomyrmex occidentalis. Bottom-line; I think we've lost 5-7 workers in the first 4 days - how worried should I be?

 

We ordered from Tar Heel, got the 20-30 workers + queen bundle (though I think closer to 40 when they arrived Tuesday night, all alive), and have them in a Fallen Fortress. Took a bit of work getting them out of their test tube, but they moved in after the first night and are set up as you see here. Filled the nestmate and put 10ml of water into the water tower Tuesday night, then added the feeder tray of dandelion seeds the following morning (they seem to have taken about half of the seeds into the nest). The nestmate was empty this morning, so refilled it, and we topped off the water tower with 5ml yesterday.

 

In terms of potential signals:

• Temperature-wise, I've attached a heatmap (all measured with this); the #s on my chart below are as of a minute ago, and a bit lower than usual by about 2 degrees (I usually see the water tower around 75)
• There are a decent # of tiny black/brown dots up against the glass ceiling. Could these be mold, or am I just looking at ant poop?
• We have seen the ants moving seeds around, tending the larvae + pupae, and even a couple of pupae eclose, which perhaps is a good sign?
• They're on the desk, which I know exposes them to some vibration, but we don't see much in the way of 'freakout' behavior or running around
• I see 4 corpses atm, but I'd taken out 2 earlier on when they left them in the outworld

Photos below:

 

 

 

 

 

Huge thanks for any advice!!

Edited by bootsfirst, March 8 2025 - 9:03 AM.

[ANTdrew]

They may just be deaths due to the stress of shipment. That nest does look too big for the size of that colony, but that wouldn’t kill workers quickly like you’re seeing. Give them some time to settle in and see if the deaths continue. Disturb them as little as possible.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

I also keep a Pogonomyrmex occidentalis colony i got from THA, and kept in a fallen fortress for a while too, though not at first they started in a mini hearth.


Dots are poop, it will build up in places over time.

the IR temp probe can only tell you the external temps, including the top of the glass but not the inside of the nest actual  temp. Just how the tech works, surface only.  I do use one to double check on things.

It's a bit of overkill by the POV of a lot of keeps, but i love using a thermostat for automated temp control.  I have this one with two separate probes and outlets (came in handy when expanding a year later), and a timer only outlet for lighting. I look at the temp readout once a day to see it looks as expected and winter/summer i don't have to do anything the thermostat automates the temps it for me.
This is from when they had just moved out of their minihearth. the painters tape holds a bit of cable on the side and the part that runs along the top is enough to prevent condensation.
https://www.digiten....om-fermentation





I'd not keep a nest mate with water in their nest. At least with my colony they get fussy about water sources too near/in the nest and tended to drain them out by packing bits of dirt/sand/food onto them which would channeled the water out in a short time. While a ful nest mate should last about a week for a small colony.

yes all sounds like they are doing their thing as normal. They should also make those dead bodies out to a trash pile at some point. My ants are particularly fastidious and keep a trash pile as far from their nest entrance in the outworld as they can get it.

here's where they are today


As long as you don't notice them getting the zoomies/freaking out a lot they should be fine. If they are getting agitated/stressed out frequently, consider a new location with less regular disturbances.


I believe the queen (mine over the last couple years) tends to lay eggs at a slow but steady rate in the 2-10 a day range or so. I've noticed the ants then also tend to die off in little cohorts like that. At some point the death/new egg rate gets fairly close but the queen slightly outpaces the mortality rate and the colony is very steady in growth. Even with the queen having gone on egg break for a few weeks twice now in the last two years. The brood pile shrinks from what you see down to just a few, and then eventually i'll spot a tiny larvae/egg clutch to show she is laying again.

I'd say it sounds and looks like everything is fine and i too had these sorts of worries when i first got my ants.

Edited by Full_Frontal_Yeti, March 8 2025 - 10:43 AM.

[bootsfirst]

Thanks both! Appreciate all the detail (and very inspirational colony FFY!)

 

I was thinking about a probe at some point, but figured for now the IR temp at least gave me a directional sense. Sounds like the temp range itself isn't so low that it's a likely culprit though anyway. Interesting set-up with the heating cable on top as well to allow more coverage of it without causing condensation.

 

Gonna do my best to hold steady and avoid the temptation to interfere or tinker with things and hopefully things stabilize in a few days.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

Thanks both! Appreciate all the detail (and very inspirational colony FFY!)

 

I was thinking about a probe at some point, but figured for now the IR temp at least gave me a directional sense. Sounds like the temp range itself isn't so low that it's a likely culprit though anyway. Interesting set-up with the heating cable on top as well to allow more coverage of it without causing condensation.

 

Gonna do my best to hold steady and avoid the temptation to interfere or tinker with things and hopefully things stabilize in a few days.
 

Yeah your temp ranges look fine, a nice gradient of temp chocie for them is best. In the larger multi-nest setup image the temps are set to mimic going deeper underground. With the "top" nest getting an area into the mid to high 80s. The middle nest is given just a bit of the heat from the top nest to be high to mid 70s, and the last nest at the "bottom" is kept 71/72f. The queen is mostly found in the colder bottom nest, while the brood pile is mostly kept in the "top" nest.

The heat cable on the glass is only just barely touching it, not really adding much heat to the nest but is keeping the glass from being cold enough to get condensation on the inside.