10 replies to this topic

[TwistyPunch]

Hello guys;
So I know that millipedes don't bother ants and the ants won't really bother it (because it secretes a defensive liquid). I'm thinking of adding a Narceus americanus (American giant millipede) to my Camponotus pennsylvanicus Outworld, which is forest themed and is a perfect habitat for such a millipede. The Outworld has a lid, but the lid has airholes that are big enough for the ants to fit through, so I have a mineral oil barrier on the walls. The millipede would be too large to fit through the holes, but I'm wondering if it would be able to walk over the barrier and/or keep testing it, weakening it and forcing me to reapply it more often. Has anyone tried this out and had problems with millipedes doing this and/or other problematic activities?
Thanks!

Edited by TwistyPunch, February 13 2025 - 7:30 AM.

[bmb1bee]

How big is the outworld and what kind of stuff is inside? There are a few problems to address, such as the size of the millipede itself (Narceus get pretty large), humidity (millipedes prefer higher humidity, Camponotus prefer less, not to mention the barrier being weaker with more humidity), and burrowing habits (millipedes will burrow through any substrate if given the chance to, so that'll mess up the outworld). I think smaller isopods that can tolerate a bit of dryness would work better than millipedes in this case. Of course if you have the Camponotus in a big vivarium or something, the millipede idea would probably work out.

[ANTdrew]

A big enough colony of ants will ruthlessly harass just about any other organism you put in with them. This does not sound like a good idea to me. Not to mention that if you are just getting into ants, why put them in a natural setup where you’ll never see them hardly again? It kind defeats the whole point of ant-keeping, especially so with relatively slow growing and inactive ants like Camponotus.

[TwistyPunch]

So my Outworld is pretty big (16x8x8 inches) and I do have it set up vivarium style. Since I would be getting both the Narceus americanus and the Camponotus ants from my own backyard, I assumed they would be able to stay in the same habitat with the same heat/humidity. The substrate layer (soil) has a ton of springtails living in it and it's only about 3/4 inch deep. I have a large moss-covered stone in the outworld that even has some moss growing off it onto the dirt. There is plenty of leaf litter on the floor that the millipede could hide under and feed on, and the rock has a little crevice under it that will perfectly house the millipede. I actually haven't attached the ants yet, the colony is still young and I have them in a smaller outworld right now. I wouldn't be that sad if the ants ate the millipede eventually either (protein for the ants ), it would just show me that the millipede wasn't a great idea. I know that millipedes are nocturnal, so if I slightly overfed the ants during the day the millipede would eat the leftovers by night, and the springtails would keep mold off the food if the millipede didn't finish it.
I also have a terrarium 'false bottom' under the soil which is held up by a mesh screen (the soil is held up, not the false bottom ). I would pour water into this false bottom so moisture would come off the floor and be trapped under the rock for the millipede but evaporate off the soil's surface elswhere, insuring it isn't to moist for the ants.

Edited by TwistyPunch, February 13 2025 - 4:55 PM.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

A big enough colony of ants will ruthlessly harass just about any other organism you put in with them. This does not sound like a good idea to me. Not to mention that if you are just getting into ants, why put them in a natural setup where you’ll never see them hardly again? It kind defeats the whole point of ant-keeping, especially so with relatively slow growing and inactive ants like Camponotus.

I agree with the ruthless-brutal-violent harassment the ants will do to anything that moves. Also, Camponotus ARE nocturnal ants, but when they get bigger, they also become diurnal so the millipede will have nowhere to hide. The leaf litter will also limit the amount you see them because of how they also try to will hide under it and they will also move all the dirt and leaf litter around and make it very messy and they will probably pile all the dirt in the corner and nest in it (not good because the nest walls will be partially coated in dirt on the glass part) one last thing to add is, idk how to spell but.. AntDrew’s Myrm’s law (spelt somewhat like that) where ants do the exact opposite of what you expect

[TwistyPunch]

Hmmm. Millipede aside for the moment, is there any way to retain a vivarium style setup with springtails and maybe some isopods without the ants piling dirt into the corner to nest in the Outworld?

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Hmmm. Millipede aside for the moment, is there any way to retain a vivarium style setup with springtails and maybe some isopods without the ants piling dirt into the corner to nest in the Outworld?

If there is not enough soil, the ants will try to dump all the soil in the corner or a specific place so that they can nest in it but if you add a decent amount of soil everywhere (at least 2-3 inches) they will happily dig into it but there will be mounds and uneven terrain because of the leftover soils from digging, but the downside will be that they will start to put soil into their feeders and flood the place also they will probably end up killing the plants so for greenery, maybe add moss and air plants because if the ants dig too much, they won’t be affected because they don’t require roots to live (or the soil runs out of nutrients, or the ants chew on them), the easiest solution is to put at least 0.5-1 inch of dry substrate and leave it be, it will not mould so often because there is no moisture, but that means you can’t add spring tails and real plants. If you really really want a vivarium style nest, maybe you should get a bigger enclosure because Camponotus are not the best species to do a vivarium setup, I’d find it more practical if you did it with a species like temnothorax or something that is small or does not grow big

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, February 13 2025 - 7:46 PM.

[TwistyPunch]

Got it ! I'm starting to think up new ideas for preventing the ants from nesting in the outworld but retaining a vivarium setup. Thanks for your input though!

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Got it ! I'm starting to think up new ideas for preventing the ants from nesting in the outworld but retaining a vivarium setup. Thanks for your input though!

Hope your idea works!

[bmb1bee]

So my Outworld is pretty big (16x8x8 inches) and I do have it set up vivarium style. Since I would be getting both the Narceus americanus and the Camponotus ants from my own backyard, I assumed they would be able to stay in the same habitat with the same heat/humidity. The substrate layer (soil) has a ton of springtails living in it and it's only about 3/4 inch deep. I have a large moss-covered stone in the outworld that even has some moss growing off it onto the dirt. There is plenty of leaf litter on the floor that the millipede could hide under and feed on, and the rock has a little crevice under it that will perfectly house the millipede. I actually haven't attached the ants yet, the colony is still young and I have them in a smaller outworld right now. I wouldn't be that sad if the ants ate the millipede eventually either (protein for the ants ), it would just show me that the millipede wasn't a great idea. I know that millipedes are nocturnal, so if I slightly overfed the ants during the day the millipede would eat the leftovers by night, and the springtails would keep mold off the food if the millipede didn't finish it.
I also have a terrarium 'false bottom' under the soil which is held up by a mesh screen (the soil is held up, not the false bottom ). I would pour water into this false bottom so moisture would come off the floor and be trapped under the rock for the millipede but evaporate off the soil's surface elswhere, insuring it isn't to moist for the ants.

The thing is that the millipede will wander and upturn the soil a lot, so whatever setup you have in there will get messed up. The ants might also move out of the tube and nest somewhere in the soil, making them more prone to disturbances with the millipedes. Even in the same general habitat, they still occupy different niches. Sorry if it sounds like I'm dunking on your whole idea of a setup with ants and other bugs, but it's just that large ants being paired with large millipedes has so many problems that would happen. On the other hand, adding small millipedes to a vivarium with small ants like Temnothorax or Monomorium should work out pretty well.

[mbullock42086]

I personally wouldn't let them cohabit with anything but myrmecophilous species like ant crickets.

  you might be able to cohab certain ground-sac spiders like creugas if you keep Pogonomyrmex and other harvesters.

  if you're keeping any kind of odorous ants (dolichoderinae), you might be able to introduce falconina gracilis to them, which is a strongly myrmecophilous ground sac spider.


 This is a long shot, but you can co-hab hemerotrecha californica with Pogonomyrmex californicus, they are a small diurnal solifuge that seems to utilize the nests for oviposition.