18 replies to this topic

[Doomchibi]

Hello! I have 5 queens that are unidentified, two different species (at least). I was hoping someone could give their input on what I might have, or confirm my suspected IDs? Thank you!

 

The first 2 pictures are of species #1, current guess is Aphaenogaster Rudis. Caught in September, all have laid eggs and have been tending them. The one alate in front was slightly smaller than the other two and had a smaller gaster, but otherwise looked almost exactly like them. That one died within the first 2 weeks unfortunately, but the other two seem to be doing well. They both look like the one behind that alate, sorry for the poor quality photos!

 

The other 3 pictures are of species #2, originally I thought they were Lasius Neoniger, but they look smaller than my other queens that were identified as those. Someone else said Formica Fusca, which is my current guess now. Caught in September as well, no eggs yet and I am thinking they won't lay any until after brumation. The last couple pictures were after I cleaned up some water that had leaked through the sponge while I was moving the tube around to take pictures... She's fine, just was upset understandably.

 

Thank you!

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Edited by Doomchibi, December 3 2024 - 7:30 PM.

[1tsm3jack]

I'm not the best at ID's but I can try haha. I have Aphaenogaster rudis and tbh I don't think its that, looks more like A. fulva but somebody else will be better at that. As for the Formica you probably don't have Fusca as they are a European species, although again somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is most likely F. subsericea. As her gaster has that shiny silvery color to it. Also if you refer to the ID post guide, the size, location and date found, habitat found, are very useful and important ID tools.

Edited by 1tsm3jack, December 3 2024 - 7:45 PM.

[bmb1bee]

The final queen is most definitely not Formica. Definitely some kind of Lasius.

[1tsm3jack]

The final queen is most definitely not Formica. Definitely some kind of Lasius.

Yep see I said someone could correct me lol. I didn't even think abt that lol.

[Doomchibi]

The final queen is most definitely not Formica. Definitely some kind of Lasius.

Thank you, I was thinking it didn't look right when comparing it to the Formica species that were flying at the time, but Lasius Americanus was flying in my area during the time I caught it. The fuzzy / velvety golden shine across the gaster was so much like my Lasius Neoniger which is why I thought that at first, but the size was a little off. Does L. Americanus seem like the right ID?

[Doomchibi]

I'm not the best at ID's but I can try haha. I have Aphaenogaster rudis and tbh I don't think its that, looks more like A. fulva but somebody else will be better at that. As for the Formica you probably don't have Fusca as they are a European species, although again somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is most likely F. subsericea. As her gaster has that shiny silvery color to it. Also if you refer to the ID post guide, the size, location and date found, habitat found, are very useful and important ID tools.

Comparing Aphaenogaster Rudis and Fulva, I am thinking that the alate that died may have been A. Rudis and my three surviving queens are A. Fulva. The alate had a slightly darker / reddish-brown color to her that looks much more like the color of the Rudis workers I am seeing pictures of. I still could be totally wrong but that seems like a better guess I think?

[1tsm3jack]

Possibly, I didn't bother to give you an ID on that one as you said she had died, but it doesn't really look like Aphaenogaster at all, possibly Myrmica rubra as they are invasive in your area, and I think this is the most likely just from visual, or Tetramorium. Could also just be another Myrmica species as you have quite a few in your area, (I could just be miles off on all of my ID's so again, someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but again size and date, location, and habitat collected are all important for ID, as well as a brief description of the coloration and closer pictures. 

Edited by 1tsm3jack, December 4 2024 - 5:08 AM.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I can’t make out species but I can determine the genus, so here I go:

Picture 1: the queen closest to the camera is a Myrmica. sp and the second one could be Aphaenogaster. sp, the smaller one probably died because Myrmica is a semi claustral species, which requires feeding during founding

Picture 2: also could be an Aphaenogaster. sp

Picture 3: definitely a Formica. sp maybe subsericea?

Picture 4 and 5: A lasius. sp can be americanus, neoniger and niger

 

also that Formica. sp is not fusca because of how fusca is European

 

That is as far as I can go because of how the photos are not clear

(some identification may be wrong)

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, December 4 2024 - 8:35 AM.

[OiledOlives]

Hi,

Photo 1: Myrmica sp.

Photo 2: Aphaenogaster fulva

Photos 3-5: Lasius neoniger

[Doomchibi]

I can’t make out species but I can determine the genus, so here I go:

Picture 1: the queen closest to the camera is a Myrmica. sp and the second one could be Aphaenogaster. sp, the smaller one probably died because Myrmica is a semi claustral species, which requires feeding during founding

Picture 2: also could be an Aphaenogaster. sp

Picture 3: definitely a Formica. sp maybe subsericea?

Picture 4 and 5: A lasius. sp can be americanus, neoniger and niger

 

also that Formica. sp is not fusca because of how fusca is European

 

That is as far as I can go because of how the photos are not clear

(some identification may be wrong)

Picture 1, I did notice that the gaster looked a bit small in comparison to my other queens, but didn't think it was significant enough of a size difference that I ever considered it could have been semi-claustral. That being said, I did offer it sugar in at least two forms before it died, I don't remember if she showed any interest. She never did remove her wings, I figured something may have been off with her from the start but I have no way of knowing now. Good to know about them being semi-claustral though, I will have to keep that in mind. I feel a little dumb for not thinking of that! Lessons learned, I suppose...

Pictures 3, 4 and 5 I really think are the same species, but it seems like I might not be sure until I get workers. Thank you for the input regardless, I appreciate it!

[OiledOlives]

3-5 are the same species, Lasius neoniger. Please see my message above.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Picture 1, I did notice that the gaster looked a bit small in comparison to my other queens, but didn't think it was significant enough of a size difference that I ever considered it could have been semi-claustral. That being said, I did offer it sugar in at least two forms before it died, I don't remember if she showed any interest. She never did remove her wings, I figured something may have been off with her from the start but I have no way of knowing now. Good to know about them being semi-claustral though, I will have to keep that in mind. I feel a little dumb for not thinking of that! Lessons learned, I suppose...

Pictures 3, 4 and 5 I really think are the same species, but it seems like I might not be sure until I get workers. Thank you for the input regardless, I appreciate it!

 

Huh, after close inspection, the head looks to be very lasius like, my bad lol I also think it is neoniger

 

but are all three of the queens similar sizes? Because maybe some are different species because in the 3rd photo, the queen’s thorax is more bigger, hinting it is neoniger, not niger because niger flies during the summer and goes into hibernation with a few workers, meanwhile neoniger flies during September and goes into hibernation without workers. Sometimes they fly during Labour Day , another reason why they are called “Labour Day ants”

 

the 4th and 5th are probably americanus because of how they have a more compact/rounder thorax, she also seems smaller than the one in the 3rd photo

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, December 5 2024 - 7:52 AM.

[OiledOlives]

 

Picture 1, I did notice that the gaster looked a bit small in comparison to my other queens, but didn't think it was significant enough of a size difference that I ever considered it could have been semi-claustral. That being said, I did offer it sugar in at least two forms before it died, I don't remember if she showed any interest. She never did remove her wings, I figured something may have been off with her from the start but I have no way of knowing now. Good to know about them being semi-claustral though, I will have to keep that in mind. I feel a little dumb for not thinking of that! Lessons learned, I suppose...

Pictures 3, 4 and 5 I really think are the same species, but it seems like I might not be sure until I get workers. Thank you for the input regardless, I appreciate it!

 

Huh, after close inspection, the head looks to be very lasius like, my bad lol I also think it is neoniger

 

but are all three of the queens similar sizes? Because maybe some are different species because in the 3rd photo, the queen’s thorax is more bigger, hinting it is neoniger, not niger because niger flies during the summer and goes into hibernation with a few workers, meanwhile neoniger flies during September and goes into hibernation without workers. Sometimes they fly during Labour Day , another reason why they are called “Labour Day ants”

 

the 4th and 5th are probably americanus because of how they have a more compact/rounder thorax, she also seems smaller than the one in the 3rd photo

 

Mesosoma size is NOT how the species L. americanus and L. neoniger are differentiated.

Queens and workers of L. neoniger are easily differentiated from L. americanus by the presence of erect hairs on the scape. Obviously we cannot see this characteristic from the photos provided, but americanus flies much earlier in the year (June-July) whilst neoniger flies much later in the year (August-October). 

Lasius niger is not even an option -- besides being far larger in size, close to L. pallitarsis, this European species is not present in Massachusetts. 

These three queens are all Lasius neoniger.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Mesosoma size is NOT how the species L. americanus and L. neoniger are differentiated.

Queens and workers of L. neoniger are easily differentiated from L. americanus by the presence of erect hairs on the scape. Obviously we cannot see this characteristic from the photos provided, but americanus flies much earlier in the year (June-July) whilst neoniger flies much later in the year (August-October). 

Lasius niger is not even an option -- besides being far larger in size, close to L. pallitarsis, this European species is not present in Massachusetts. 

These three queens are all Lasius neoniger.

 

 

 

My bad then

 

But I did compare Neoniger and americanus and the americanus queen had a smaller thorax than the neoniger, but that is probably just me....

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, December 6 2024 - 6:12 AM.

[antsriondel]

 

Hi,

Photo 1: Myrmica sp.

Hm, I'd like to ask you on this, the the third photo is recognizably different than the 4th and the 5th. I'm thinking that it would be more of a Formica species, because of the coloration. 

[ANTdrew]

The IDs have been solved. Let’s not confuse the issue anymore.

[gcsnelling]

 

 

Hi,

Photo 1: Myrmica sp.

 

 

Hm, I'd like to ask you on this, the the third photo is recognizably different than the 4th and the 5th. I'm thinking that it would be more of a Formica species, because of the coloration. 

 

Coloration is far to variable to be used as anything more than perhaps a guideline and should never be used as a defining characteristic.
 

[Doomchibi]

I have been comparing the 3 Lasius queens that I have had for over a year, and I am wondering if I don't actually have any Lasius Brevicornis queens at all. I had purchased 2 Brevicornis and one Neoniger queen, and ultimately ended up with two of each. My two queens purchased as Neoniger were briefly together in the same tube because the seller had silently included the second one as a "freebie", had not labelled them and had shipped the two tubes taped together. I had figured my tracking was wrong and that those were the L. Brevicornis (I had ordered both species at the same time). As soon as I put them together they had immediately attacked eachother, but I separated them quickly, figured out what had happened and those two have been doing well individually since.

 

I am confused because the two Neoniger queens attacked eachother within seconds of seeing eachother, and the "Brevicornis" queens were introduced peacefully and they lived together all through brumation and for several months outside of it, which is what I was expecting given I thought they were L. Brevicornis and why I didn't think they might have been incorrectly identified. Could I just have coincidentally ended up with two Neoniger queens from the same colony and for whatever reason they never fought? 

 

*None* of my workers are yellow, not even golden brown- Just medium/dark brown. All 3 queens are indistinguishable (in person) and seem to have identical workers. I found my microscope camera so I was able to take some more detailed photos, the one of queen C is terrible because she is down in part of a tube that I can't remove without badly disturbing her. She is the one I thought was Brevicornis, she looks more yellow in that picture but from above, is just brown. I did take a picture of one of her workers though, to show that they look the same as the others. 

Let me know if I need to make a different post, but I figured I would ask here first. Are these all L. Neoniger queens, like I think they are? If so, why didn't they fight?

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Edited by Doomchibi, December 10 2024 - 8:21 PM.

[OiledOlives]

None of these are brevicornis; a more specific identification past Lasius (Lasius) will require better photos, especially without a location. 

Lasius neoniger practices secondary monogyny, meaning that queens can work together during the founding period before all but one queen is culled after workers arrive, but I have also seen colonies of captive L. neoniger with two queens that had cooperated for years.