37 replies to this topic

[Crystals]

There has been a large glass display hive (taller than I am and 4 feet wide) in one of the Edmonton museums for over 12 years, and other than having to send it to the bee keeper every 2nd year to remove excess honey and clean the glass, it has only had 2 different queens after all this time.

[dspdrew]

I would love to keep bees, but it would be impossible in an apartment, no matter how creative you are.

[Mercutia]

I know some apartments in toronto allow for rooftop bee hives.

[William. T]

Having two glass panes, squished together, like an Uncle Milton Ant Farm is bad for bees. I don't know all of it, but one reason is the build of the hive. Bees want and need to build their own hive, in their own space. A langstroth allows that to a fair degree. But two vertical glass panes? That's not going to work. Bees make their comb out of their own bodies. Bees need space to no that, and other activities, such as raising brood. That's part of the reason you need a few langstroths to support any two vertical panes of plastic squeezed together.

Edited by William. T, September 16 2015 - 3:59 PM.

[MrILoveTheAnts]

"Observation Hives" as they're called are strictly for observation purposes. They're displays beekeepers setup to make their honey stands more attractive and draw more of a crowd to sell their wares. These are not long term setups though as a typical hive wants to grow to take up 40 deep frames. Constricting them to be anything less than 2 just makes them very weak and if they don't out right abandon the hive (without a queen restricter), they'll want to swarm every time the hive gets too crowded. I've seen some that can be built to house 6 or so frames sometimes bigger but these need protection over the winter time as glass doesn't insulate well. They almost always have a cover as well because constant light can encourage the bees to build up wax and propolis. Even in the temporary ones the glass has to be cleaned, usually with a razor blade as needed. 

 

I know of a few that are more open, basically having the bees live in a large container of glass where they construct a more natural hive. But because they're not building on frames, the honey is difficult to harvest and really what's the point? Heaven help you if the glass ever breaks too! 

 

In both cases to be long term they would have to be large setups, and probably situated in a room of a house or shed that can safely be cut off from the rest of the house. This way you can service the hive and clean the inside of the glass as needed. They would need an access tube to get in and out as well, ideally leading somewhere that the constant flow of bees isn't going to be an issue. If the room is cold and insulated, and they're nesting in something that's maybe two frames wide then you may have issues with them making it over the winter. You may also want to include a way to get them sugar water should it look like they're running out of food.

Edited by MrILoveTheAnts, September 16 2015 - 5:06 PM.

[Mercutia]

What about the flow hive in OP?

[William. T]

I was replying to FooGoo's statement about wanting an observation hive. Flow hives have some very bad points, and there are articles online highlighting them.

 

What about the flow hive in OP?

Edited by William. T, September 17 2015 - 3:40 AM.

[MrILoveTheAnts]

I was against the flow hive concept for loads of reasons but now having watched their latest video that explains how it works I think I'm all for it. I did notice that a lot of different covers are being used on jars which was a concern of mine. Honey harvesting is done indoors so the bees don't find it and swarm the frames.

[Mercutia]

Is it a problem if they do swarm the jars? I mean, with the covers on them.

[William. T]

Why biggest concern is how you take all the hard earned honey the bees make, or mess up so that it is unevenly distributed among the combs. Supposedly the bees will discover their stores have been ransacked. Definitely some of the people who bought it are going to turn on the spigot every week or something. No one mentions mites, Nosema, beetles, foulbrood, and the thousand and one ailments of a hive just go away,and it's just free honey. It's for "people that want to get away from the bees." That's the problem. It doesn't promote inspections or care for the bees, just free honey.

 

http://www.milkwood....ally-good-idea/

http://www.huffingto..._b_6877484.html

http://www.honeybees...-with-the-flow/

https://naturalbeeke...-the-flow-hive/

[Mercutia]

But that's an issue with the marketing, not the product itself. Again, can we please focus on the hard facts and evidence of the actual device. I am not an uninformed no-research consumer. I'm a person who has done my research and like I've already stated before this product does not forgo regular bee care, checking brood, etc. For me personally, this simply makes the extraction process easier and less time consuming. And like I continue to say, I would still use regular wood and wax racks on the sides and maybe install 3 of these in the hive. No one in this thread is saying good beekeeping procedure should be forgone (although they might infer that in the video). What I'm trying to ask is why if there is negative feedback this is a bad idea. You can't just sit and tell me "oh beetles and stuff". That doesn't explain anything! Why would hive beetles and stuff be more of a problem using this than regular racks?

 

I hate that this has turned into a elitist thing. It's for "people that want to get away from the bees" is your interpretation of it. Anyone who does their homework knows that you'd still have to check on the bees regularly and inspect the hive for any number of reasons. If you have a problem with the way its marketed fine w/e, idc. BUT PLEASE, CAN WE STICK TO THE ACTUAL PROS AND CONS OF THE DEVICE ITSELF, not how people will abuse the device or come up with stupid notions of hands-off beekeeping because of a promo video.

 

EDIT: Also I'm pretty sure if you go for honey, you have to drain the whole frame for it to work properly and be re-used properly by the bees. I'm pretty sure those are in the instructions of use but frankly for me, that's just so self-explanatory I'm surprised it still even needs to be said.

[William. T]

But that's an issue with the marketing, not the product itself. Again, can we please focus on the hard facts and evidence of the actual device. I am not an uninformed no-research consumer. I'm a person who has done my research and like I've already stated before this product does not forgo regular bee care, checking brood, etc. For me personally, this simply makes the extraction process easier and less time consuming. And like I continue to say, I would still use regular wood and wax racks on the sides and maybe install 3 of these in the hive. No one in this thread is saying good beekeeping procedure should be forgone (although they might infer that in the video). What I'm trying to ask is why if there is negative feedback this is a bad idea. You can't just sit and tell me "oh beetles and stuff". That doesn't explain anything! Why would hive beetles and stuff be more of a problem using this than regular racks?

 

I hate that this has turned into a elitist thing. It's for "people that want to get away from the bees" is your interpretation of it. Anyone who does their homework knows that you'd still have to check on the bees regularly and inspect the hive for any number of reasons. If you have a problem with the way its marketed fine w/e, idc. BUT PLEASE, CAN WE STICK TO THE ACTUAL PROS AND CONS OF THE DEVICE ITSELF, not how people will abuse the device or come up with stupid notions of hands-off beekeeping because of a promo video.

 

EDIT: Also I'm pretty sure if you go for honey, you have to drain the whole frame for it to work properly and be re-used properly by the bees. I'm pretty sure those are in the instructions of use but frankly for me, that's just so self-explanatory I'm surprised it still even needs to be said.

What I am saying is, just get yourself a langstroth, a time tested method, and make yourself a member of a local club or group and borrow their extractor. A package of bees frankly don't aren't cheap, and neither is beekeeping equipment. $400-$500 is more than enough to get started on, including bees, and buy a few luxuries, and even that is cheap than the $700+ you pay for this thing, not including bees and the multitude of other things, such as hive tools, and the wax frames you say you will buy, a veil, meds, the list goes on and one.. There are many problems that happen with the product, and even if you remove the frames, you still don't eliminate all of them. Plus, you have saved money that you can use to purchase medications, hive blockers, stands, frames, supers, and other things. I met many clubs, and they are full of wonderful people. They will answer your questions, and loan or even give you or help you on your equipment. Joining one will give you access of an extractor. These are purely my views. 

[Bigb]

Last month I joined the local beekeepers association just so I would have access to the extraction equipment.  I don't have any colonies yet but I plan on acquiring a couple this spring.  

 

There is one thing that I see with the Flow Hive that I would question.   It looks like there is a potential for build up of honey in the frame after extraction that the bees will not be able to access.  If the bees can't get to this leftover honey to recycle it, it could build up and cause issues with later extractions.  My family had bees when I was growing up and after extraction we would leave the empty (apparently) frames outside the hives for the bees to "recycle".   They would clean any leftover honey and crystals (no relation) that were missed by the extraction process so none of that wonderful nectar was wasted. 

 

Also, I remember during the harvest we would take the honey laden frames to an enclosed porch (where the extractor was) and they always had a heater running while extracting.  I am not sure if it was necessary for the extraction or just hastened the process (it wasn't my show, I was merely forced labor).  Might be an issue trying to harvest outside in a cooler environment. But I guess you could pull the frame and extract it indoors if that was an issue.

 

BTW: My dad was too cheap to buy bee keeping suits so we basically did the harvest with smokers  and home-made beekeeping helmets and I was rarely stung (smoke is your friend).

[Mercutia]

Okay so I'm going to go to my local beekeeper association. See if people are nice enough to sell me some old langstroths and equipment. Maybe even apprentice me until I get more comfortable. Still these frames would have been nice.

[William. T]

Okay so I'm going to go to my local beekeeper association. See if people are nice enough to sell me some old langstroths and equipment. Maybe even apprentice me until I get more comfortable. Still these frames would have been nice.

I strongly recommend it. For the time I was working on my project, I have found bee keepers to be nice people, and they will answer any questions you have.

[Acutus]

Glass bad because it allows heat to enter and traps it in. A woodside painted white would deflect a lot of heat off. We had a few guys pitch in and get some Flow Hive setups and they are all disappointed in the performance for the cost!

 

Observation hives made of glass are totally fine but they are usually kept indoors to control the climate. I have one for my Nature Center. I love it!

[AntPhycho]

In my opinion, the most efficient hive design would be the original Langstroth hive which is cheap, simple, and easy to customize. You could probably even make a DIY Langstroth if you were up for the challenge.

[Nylanderiavividula]

You two know that was quite an old debate, right?  I'm happy that Mercutia seemed to come to her senses and decide to go the more-traditional route of joining a club and learning the "standard way" of beekeeping, first.  Flow Hives, as far as I have ever understood, are really only honey supers.  I'm not a fan of them, but I do like that they cause people to become interested in beekeeping.  I do think they COULD be good for backyard beekeepers.  But it was interesting to me to read all that because she was talking about how expensive extraction equipment and all was...well...the Flow "Hive" ain't cheap!  $700 for ONE SUPER...whhhhhaaaaaat??  I've done the work of working up a pricelist for many people through the years of exactly what they would need to get started with bees, and this includes a cheapish two-three frame tangential motorless (you gotta' crank the thing...) extractor and basic processing equipment and it roughly comes out to $800.  That's for two hive kits, two packages of bees (queens included), protective equipment, smoker, hive tool, gloves, etc.  So for the cost of ONE Flow Hive super, she would have only been under $100 of owning two whole hives and very basic extraction equipment...  Anyway, just my two cents.  I keep about thirty colonies and have been doing it for seven years (going on year eight, now).