20 replies to this topic

[Miel]

Good afternoon everyone,

I need your help.

I have had a Tetramorium bicarinatum colony for several months now. This one arrived with very little brood. However, they recovered well and in no time there was a large pile of larvae and pupae. Growth was good. The colony also started producing males and new queens: a good sign I think.

Now that a large number of pupae have emerged, unfortunately there is virtually no brood left, except for a few large larvae and pupae and very few eggs. Proteins are no longer accepted (crickets, morio worms and buffalo worms)

Below is a photo of the setup: a curver box half placed on a heating mat. They can choose between a moist and dry test tube.

What could this be? Have you seen this before and does anyone know how and if I can solve this?

Thanks in advance!

 

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[1tsm3jack]

They could just be winding down for hibernation, although I don't know much about T. Bicarinatum.

[ANTdrew]

Producing queens and alates usually depletes a colony as much of the resources are used up. You should also make sure they are warm enough.

[Miel]

Thank you both for your response. They are heated by means of a heating mat.

I am aware that queens require a lot of energy. Is it an option to kill some of these winged queens?

[1tsm3jack]

Thank you both for your response. They are heated by means of a heating mat.

I am aware that queens require a lot of energy. Is it an option to kill some of these winged queens?

The queens have already used up all the energy between the egg stage and now, it wouldn't really do much besides save the food that would be used for them. Tetramorium Bicarinatum will breed in the nest, so you could end up with a polygynous colony if you kept them.

[Miel]

I just find it very strange that they no longer want to accept proteins. I have already tried to offer this to them in several ways in the form of crickets, morio worms and buffalo worms.

[1tsm3jack]

I just find it very strange that they no longer want to accept proteins. I have already tried to offer this to them in several ways in the form of crickets, morio worms and buffalo worms.

yeah I don't know about that, depending on your location, they may just be winding down for winter.

[Miel]

I don't know where they come from, but I decided to put them in a garage at 15 degrees for two months.

Unfortunately, I also recently found a dead queen, so I'm a bit afraid that - although there are still three wingless queens around - there are no more fertilized queens and that is why they have so few brood...

[Miel]

Do you think it is a good decision to put this colony a little cooler? I did this because they do not want to accept proteins in any way.

[IdioticMouse26]

They don't hibernate, but you can optionally make them enter diapause from Oct-March for about 6-8 weeks.

[Miel]

I know that, but they no longer want to accept proteins. This worries me as there is virtually no brood left.

[RushmoreAnts]

They could just be winding down for hibernation, although I don't know much about T. Bicarinatum.

 

They don't hibernate, but you can optionally make them enter diapause from Oct-March for about 6-8 weeks.

Indeed, they are tropical in origin, they likely are not waiting to hibernate.

[Miel]

I know that this ant species can also be found in Asia, but also in Europe. Could it not be that I have a European variant that hibernates?

 

 

If this is not the case, how is it possible that they no longer get proteins? I understand that a colony needs little protein if there are few larvae, but then I would expect new eggs to be produced? I think I saw some eggs, but very few. I don't understand this since they recently had a huge mountain of pupae and larvae...

Very worried currently

[ANTdrew]

Ambient temperature probably has dropped as autumn advances. Your heat pad may not be warm enough. That’s my theory.

[Mushu]

I can tell you I'm in a similar predicament but mine seems to be related to a recent heatwave and I forgot to leave the AC on, that caused the room the ants are in to go up to 93+ degrees for half a day when I was not home. I'm not exactly sure of the cause yet, but one of my honeypot colonies  always has eggs but for some reason they do not have any brood. It was fine before this.  They were up to 200 workers or so. My theory is, that heatwave induced some diapause. I really hope the queen did not lose/kill stored sperm because of it. My other theory is mites/bed bugs might eating the eggs, although I see a few in my other colony, or some bacteria or that queen has some pathogen causing her eggs to no longer be fertile. 

 

What's interesting is my other colony, same species, is still producing and developing lots of brood. The only difference is this colony one of the chambers is usually 2 degrees cooler because it's closer to the window but otherwise same setup and went through the same heatwave.

Edited by Mushu, October 21 2024 - 11:13 PM.

[rptraut]

Hello Miel;

 

Let me start by saying that I don't keep Tetramorium bicarinatum, but I think I might still be able to offer you some suggestions to answer your question and solve the problem.   

 

First of all is a matter of housekeeping.    I would clean out all of the old insect carcasses and debris as they look like they're accumulating in their outworld.   Monitoring the amount of protein a colony is taking is difficult, especially with small ants that can be inside a cricket and not very visible.   They may be taking more protein than you realize.   To find out, clean up their outworld and don't give them any protein for two days.   On the third day, give them a small piece of chicken.   You'll soon find out if the colony is taking protein or not.   

 

Second, make sure your colony is queenright, in other words, has a live queen that is laying eggs.    You might find it easier to find eggs, once you've found the queen, to look on the underside of the test tube for eggs near her.    I'm only speculating now, but it might be that your queen stopped laying eggs while the colony concentrated their resources on raising alates.   Something similar happens with my Camponotus colonies that lay eggs in batches.  The queens lay eggs in a batch, so the brood reaches a point when the larvae are matured, and they all enter the cocoon stage.   Protein consumption drops to nothing for cocoons.   Very often, these queens will not start to lay the next batch of eggs until those cocoons eclose, and eggs don't require protein either.    This means there can be quite a long period between batches when the colony requires little or no protein because the brood is in either the cocoon or egg stage.   

 

Does T. bicarinatum lay eggs in batches?  It may be possible that your queen has just started to lay eggs again after the colony produced alates and those eggs will take time to hatch before the larvae require protein.   Find the queen and take a really good look underneath her for eggs.    Use a magnifying glass if you have to.   My hope is that you'll find the beginnings of her next clutch. 

 

Keeping a colony long enough to produce alates is often the goal of an ant keeper, but I've always found it to be very hard on the ant colony.   One cause has got to be that the colony produces alates instead of workers.    Fewer workers are available to replace older workers as they die, so worker numbers decline.    Sometimes colonies seem to almost crash after producing alates, seeming to be more susceptible to things like mites and disease.   When my colonies produced alates it always seemed to set the colony back.  

 

Good Luck

RPT

 

 

[Miel]

Hello Mushu, rptraut and ANTdrew,

 

Thank you very much for your input and thoughts!

I understand that the arena looks very dirty in the photo. However, these are prey animals from the past two days, which are cleaned up regularly.

 

I have looked at the colony carefully and think I see eggs: there are only very few of them and I suspect around 15 eggs. Normally, as far as I know, Tetramorium bicarinatum should grow very quickly and produce eggs continuously. Of course, it could be that the alates have paused egg laying. Now I have to say that Tetramorium bicarinatum colonies, if they are large enough, continuously produce new queens and also inbreed.

 

I will try to give them a piece of chicken one of the next days. Although I really expect them not to accept any protein: a few weeks ago they stormed the prey animals with dozens, while now there is an ant on them every now and then.

 

I suspect that the colony has indeed gone into a kind of diapause. That is why I am thinking of taking them off the heating element for about six weeks, as this would otherwise only be a waste of their energy I think.

 

Unfortunately, two queens have also died in the past period (one had unfortunately decided to drink sugar water and then got tangled in the cotton wool and one was lying in a drop of condensation (I don't know if it drowned or if it was already laid dead in there). For the rest, there seem to be three wingless queens walking around in the nest. And a few dozen winged queens. I hope that a number of these are still fertilized. I am starting to fear that the fertilized gynes have died, but time will tell.

 

I don't think the heat is such an issue: it is still quite warm outside for this time of year. Moreover, I would think that if this had been the case, they would all have to be on the heating element, but that is not the case.

 

We will see. Thanks again!

Edited by Miel, October 22 2024 - 3:52 AM.

[Mushu]

Colony A = no brood

Colony B = brood

 

I've never had alates but rptraut's theory and timing is sound regarding behavior after alates are produced, perhaps others that have experience can chime in. With no brood, low protein intake is expected and they probably will just slurp up some of the insect juices at most. My colony still takes protein albeit much less than my other colony. They will take fruit flies in and after a few days most of the fruit flies will be dumped in the trash whole, with only a few processed. 

 

I do suspect there was always some eggs and if stopped, was only brief. When there's less eggs, it's can be easily hidden from view. My honeypot colony that has no brood, always had a variable stack of eggs, large(30+) and small, and still has, but they never developed after some point. I also pay attention to the workers tending them and they appear normal, the eggs appear to be taken care of. 

 

There was a brief period for Colony B, brood stopped. I noticed a deformed worker was trying to take care of them(but couldn't) and the eggs were turning yellow and drying out, thus failing to hatch. Once I removed the deformed worker, no more yellow eggs and brood cycle was back to normal. 

 

I also invaded their nest to clean dirty glass close to when the heatwave occurred and did notice some slowdown( I noticed pupae and larvae/pupae stack was much lower compared to the amount of eggs laid) after that. I invaded Colony B also to clean but they did not panic(literally only one worker took a peek out the nest for 1 second and no workers ran around) at all when I opened the nest, compared to the Colony A with no brood(which ran around frantically as expected, so that may have put them in a state of brood pause. The reason I say this is because, Colony A's queen used to never panic or run away when I peeked in the nest, but now I notice every time I remove the darkplate on either the xxl mini hearth or mini hearth, she runs to either to try to hide. Colony B does not panic at all.

 

My list of theories at the moment in no order:

Both have the same setup: Outworld ---> xxl mini hearth ---> mini hearth

The only difference is the mini hearth is about 5 degrees cooler than the xxl where I heat about 1/2 of the xxl in front near the glass up to the outworld entrance. Colony B's mini hearth is about 2 degrees cooler than Colony A, due to being closer to the window. 

 

I feed both the same foods. 

 

1. Colony A is in some sort of heat induced diapause from the heatwave that caused room to go to 93+ and is now producing trophic eggs. 

2. Colony A is in some sort of brood pause from the invasion of the nest ---> I plan to just not remove the darkplate or disturb them for 3 weeks.

3. mites/booklice eating the eggs --->  less likely as  I see them in both colonies and Colony B is still producing lots of brood and is increasing production.

4. Colony A has heat-related fertility loss.

 

Do you recall besides development of alates, any other extreme(temperature,invasions of nest) incidents that induced observable behavioral differences? I would also check for mites,etc.

Edited by Mushu, October 22 2024 - 12:03 PM.

[Miel]

Very interesting observations, thanks for sharing!

 

I don't think the environmental conditions have changed much. 

I do notice that they are also less active in the arena. Also note no additional mortality. I'll see if I can find mites with a magnifying glass one of the next few days.

 

By the way, there are still some larvae, but very few (about 20 I'm guessing, which have different sizes)

[Miel]

Good news: spotted a large clump of eggs today! Certainly a lot more than a week ago (of course it could always be that I didn't notice this last week, but I think I looked very carefully). However, they still do not absorb (almost) any proteins. (although there are around 30 larvae of different sizes) hope this comes again soon.