23 replies to this topic

[MReef]

Hello, I have a young Black Carpenter Ant Colony going and its getting frustrating. The colony cannot surpass 6 workers at a time for some reason. The workers randomly die off, at first I thought it was the organic honey they were getting but the Queen is completely fine, I switched their source of sweets to sugar water made for hummingbirds. After doing that, overnight I'm left with 2 workers and bodies mixed with the brood pile. I don't understand why this is happening, I've offered them protein and sugar sources consistently, the water in their test tube is spring water. I don't understand how the workers get wiped out but the queen remains fine because she is eating and drinking the same stuff, still laying eggs. This is the ups and downs of the worker population: (nanitics) 2 > 4 > 8 > 6 > 4 > 7 > 2(current). They were connected to an outworld but I've decided to remove them from it because of this issue. The remaining workers are displaying odd behavior, like disoriented and stumbling. Anyone here have similar experience or know what's going on? 

[ANTdrew]

Some queens just have poor genetics. What temperature are you keeping them at? What are you feeding for protein?

[MReef]

Some queens just have poor genetics. What temperature are you keeping them at? What are you feeding for protein?

 

Daytime high 70s, possibly low 80s. Night time low 70s. The room I keep them in has alot of heat sources as I have alot of tropical plants and animals so it gets pretty warm in the day. I don't use any specific heating for the ants. For protein they show little interest in most insects but their favorites have been earwigs and grasshopper legs, as in they are the only food they carry into the test tube. I've also tried tiny earthworms, moths, and fish food. For sugars I've tried Raw unfiltered honey-not diluted in water-, the hummingbird 'nectar', orange slice, peach slice. The raw honey is really convenient to feed to them using parchment paper, I may start giving it to them again

I read that them having too much space can be an issue, is it possible their test tube is too spacious and it stresses them out? They make their trash site at the entrance of the test tube

[ANTdrew]

You could try moving them into a Tarheel Ants mini-hearth. Camponotus love termites if you can find those. Wingless fruit flies is another great option you can easily raise yourself.

[ruth]

Hello, I had a Camponotus colony and they lasted about 2 years, there were 12 workers but suddenly they died and the queen escaped. Sudden death and slow growth seems to be very common on these species.

[Ants_Dakota]

Good morning. Here are several applicable things you can try to help your Camponotus colony. One thing I have noticed when feeding ants inside of their test tube is how quickly mold can show up. Because of this I usually try not to feed them in there, but I have used products in the past such as this or this or this to make the test tube a whole lot cleaner. This can possibly prevent unknown deaths from molds that we cannot detect. Urea, also known as bird poop/pee, has been linked with increasing Camponotus productivity, although this is contested. Links to scientific articles proving this can be found here and here if you want to research this for yourself (I would recommend). A formiculture post from awhile ago discussing this topic can be found here or here, and affordable quantities of urea are being sold by a member here.

[MReef]

Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everyone!
 

You could try moving them into a Tarheel Ants mini-hearth. Camponotus love termites if you can find those. Wingless fruit flies is another great option you can easily raise yourself.

Good morning. Here are several applicable things you can try to help your Camponotus colony. One thing I have noticed when feeding ants inside of their test tube is how quickly mold can show up. Because of this I usually try not to feed them in there, but I have used products in the past such as this or this or this to make the test tube a whole lot cleaner. This can possibly prevent unknown deaths from molds that we cannot detect. Urea, also known as bird poop/pee, has been linked with increasing Camponotus productivity, although this is contested. Links to scientific articles proving this can be found here and here if you want to research this for yourself (I would recommend). A formiculture post from awhile ago discussing this topic can be found here or here, and affordable quantities of urea are being sold by a member here.

 

Tomorrow I will search for termites and bird poop, guessing only take the white part? Kinda nasty, Is it worth/safe collecting from the wild? I don't really want to buy a pound of Urea off amazon xD.
About their test tube, it isn't very dirty. I usually put food onto parchment paper then remove it once theyve all had their fill, unless its an earwig then they take it to the brood pile. The only thing I've seen as dirty is that they don't have a bathroom zone so they just go everywhere for some reason.. including next to their water source as seen in the previous pic. I havent encountered any visible molds yet though

There is only 1 worker left now, I think she will die overnight, basically starting all over. I'm wondering if I should move the queen to a new clean test tube before the upcoming 5 workers hatch from their cocoons. What do yall think, worth the stress? Its this predicament where I don't know if intervening helps or kills

 

 

Hello, I had a Camponotus colony and they lasted about 2 years, there were 12 workers but suddenly they died and the queen escaped. Sudden death and slow growth seems to be very common on these species.

That sucks, I knew about slow growth but not sudden deaths, I really like Camponotus cause I can see what's going on without needing my macro lens. I wish my colony was doing better



A photo of their current setup after disconnected from the outworld, they are covered with a black towel most of the time
 

[Ants_Dakota]

Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everyone!
 

You could try moving them into a Tarheel Ants mini-hearth. Camponotus love termites if you can find those. Wingless fruit flies is another great option you can easily raise yourself.

Good morning. Here are several applicable things you can try to help your Camponotus colony. One thing I have noticed when feeding ants inside of their test tube is how quickly mold can show up. Because of this I usually try not to feed them in there, but I have used products in the past such as this or this or this to make the test tube a whole lot cleaner. This can possibly prevent unknown deaths from molds that we cannot detect. Urea, also known as bird poop/pee, has been linked with increasing Camponotus productivity, although this is contested. Links to scientific articles proving this can be found here and here if you want to research this for yourself (I would recommend). A formiculture post from awhile ago discussing this topic can be found here or here, and affordable quantities of urea are being sold by a member here.

 

Tomorrow I will search for termites and bird poop, guessing only take the white part? Kinda nasty, Is it worth/safe collecting from the wild? I don't really want to buy a pound of Urea off amazon xD.
About their test tube, it isn't very dirty. I usually put food onto parchment paper then remove it once theyve all had their fill, unless its an earwig then they take it to the brood pile. The only thing I've seen as dirty is that they don't have a bathroom zone so they just go everywhere for some reason.. including next to their water source as seen in the previous pic. I havent encountered any visible molds yet though

There is only 1 worker left now, I think she will die overnight, basically starting all over. I'm wondering if I should move the queen to a new clean test tube before the upcoming 5 workers hatch from their cocoons. What do yall think, worth the stress? Its this predicament where I don't know if intervening helps or kills

 

 

Hello, I had a Camponotus colony and they lasted about 2 years, there were 12 workers but suddenly they died and the queen escaped. Sudden death and slow growth seems to be very common on these species.

That sucks, I knew about slow growth but not sudden deaths, I really like Camponotus cause I can see what's going on without needing my macro lens. I wish my colony was doing better



A photo of their current setup after disconnected from the outworld, they are covered with a black towel most of the time
 

The fact they are dying so quickly is just too suspicious to me. I would definitely move them into a new test tube, as the deaths seem so characteristic of an unseen mold or bacteria. It seems the cotton in the image is moist, which is good, but double check that as well. Because their antennae are curling up, it could be a sign of a dry nest, which will kill of the workers first and than the queen, just like what is happening to you.

[MReef]

 

Thanks for all the recommendations and comments everyone!
 

You could try moving them into a Tarheel Ants mini-hearth. Camponotus love termites if you can find those. Wingless fruit flies is another great option you can easily raise yourself.

Good morning. Here are several applicable things you can try to help your Camponotus colony. One thing I have noticed when feeding ants inside of their test tube is how quickly mold can show up. Because of this I usually try not to feed them in there, but I have used products in the past such as this or this or this to make the test tube a whole lot cleaner. This can possibly prevent unknown deaths from molds that we cannot detect. Urea, also known as bird poop/pee, has been linked with increasing Camponotus productivity, although this is contested. Links to scientific articles proving this can be found here and here if you want to research this for yourself (I would recommend). A formiculture post from awhile ago discussing this topic can be found here or here, and affordable quantities of urea are being sold by a member here.

 

Tomorrow I will search for termites and bird poop, guessing only take the white part? Kinda nasty, Is it worth/safe collecting from the wild? I don't really want to buy a pound of Urea off amazon xD.
About their test tube, it isn't very dirty. I usually put food onto parchment paper then remove it once theyve all had their fill, unless its an earwig then they take it to the brood pile. The only thing I've seen as dirty is that they don't have a bathroom zone so they just go everywhere for some reason.. including next to their water source as seen in the previous pic. I havent encountered any visible molds yet though

There is only 1 worker left now, I think she will die overnight, basically starting all over. I'm wondering if I should move the queen to a new clean test tube before the upcoming 5 workers hatch from their cocoons. What do yall think, worth the stress? Its this predicament where I don't know if intervening helps or kills

 

 

Hello, I had a Camponotus colony and they lasted about 2 years, there were 12 workers but suddenly they died and the queen escaped. Sudden death and slow growth seems to be very common on these species.

That sucks, I knew about slow growth but not sudden deaths, I really like Camponotus cause I can see what's going on without needing my macro lens. I wish my colony was doing better



A photo of their current setup after disconnected from the outworld, they are covered with a black towel most of the time
 

The fact they are dying so quickly is just too suspicious to me. I would definitely move them into a new test tube, as the deaths seem so characteristic of an unseen mold or bacteria. It seems the cotton in the image is moist, which is good, but double check that as well. Because their antennae are curling up, it could be a sign of a dry nest, which will kill of the workers first and than the queen, just like what is happening to you.

 

 

I have moved her to a 16mm test tube, much smaller but I read they actually like the smaller size more. I don't have an extra giant test tube. While moving her I recorded the behavior of the last worker ant. Ill link vid to it here. I'm not moving this worker to the new test tube, don't want to risk contamination. I'm actually hoping dehydration was the issue and not mold/bacteria, when I felt the cotton ball it was a little dry but hard to tell, in the new test tube I didn't put the cotton ball as tight   When the next workers hatch, I will try giving them urea. What is your opinion on wild collecting it?

 

Pic of her in new test tube- Now its time to wait and see what happens


 

[Ants_Dakota]

 

 

I have moved her to a 16mm test tube, much smaller but I read they actually like the smaller size more. I don't have an extra giant test tube. While moving her I recorded the behavior of the last worker ant. Ill link vid to it here. I'm not moving this worker to the new test tube, don't want to risk contamination. I'm actually hoping dehydration was the issue and not mold/bacteria, when I felt the cotton ball it was a little dry but hard to tell, in the new test tube I didn't put the cotton ball as tight   When the next workers hatch, I will try giving them urea. What is your opinion on wild collecting it?

 

Pic of her in new test tube- Now its time to wait and see what happens

 

I am unsure of wild collection because I have never done it or heard of collecting it. I assume it could work. It would probably be more messy though than spending the $4 on it from the link i posted for the pure crystalized version. That worker is also acting very abnormally, as I assume you came to the conclusion of as well. I am unsure if that is a hydration issue as I have not noticed a behavior change in ants from lack of water, only shriveling up and random deaths. I hope it is not some macro parasite. 

Edited by Ants_Dakota, September 19 2024 - 1:34 PM.

[ANTdrew]

I hate to say this, but I think this colony is a lost cause.

[M_Ants]

Hello, I have a young Black Carpenter Ant Colony going and its getting frustrating. The colony cannot surpass 6 workers at a time for some reason. The workers randomly die off, at first I thought it was the organic honey they were getting but the Queen is completely fine, I switched their source of sweets to sugar water made for hummingbirds. After doing that, overnight I'm left with 2 workers and bodies mixed with the brood pile. I don't understand why this is happening, I've offered them protein and sugar sources consistently, the water in their test tube is spring water. I don't understand how the workers get wiped out but the queen remains fine because she is eating and drinking the same stuff, still laying eggs. This is the ups and downs of the worker population: (nanitics) 2 > 4 > 8 > 6 > 4 > 7 > 2(current). They were connected to an outworld but I've decided to remove them from it because of this issue. The remaining workers are displaying odd behavior, like disoriented and stumbling. Anyone here have similar experience or know what's going on? 

20240917_160140.jpg

 

Have you fed them fruit? Do you always wash your hands before doing anything ant related? Do you have a dog or cat with flea medicine on it? Have you fed the nectar to any other colonies?

[MReef]

I am unsure of wild collection because I have never done it or heard of collecting it. I assume it could work. It would probably be more messy though than spending the $4 on it from the link i posted for the pure crystalized version. That worker is also acting very abnormally, as I assume you came to the conclusion of as well. I am unsure if that is a hydration issue as I have not noticed a behavior change in ants from lack of water, only shriveling up and random deaths. I hope it is not some macro parasite. 

Eh I'm not gonna work out shipping and payment with someone over bird poop, it cost $10 on amazon for a pound but a pound is too much I wouldn't know what to do with it. Ill try wild collected when the time comes and yes this is how workers acted before dying, I mentioned the behavior in my first post. I hope it isn't parasitic either

 

 

Have you fed them fruit? Do you always wash your hands before doing anything ant related? Do you have a dog or cat with flea medicine on it? Have you fed the nectar to any other colonies?

I have fed them orange and peach, I washed and removed the skin, they were small pieces. I do have a dog that had flea medicine on it about a week ago, I don't wash my hands everytime I interact with the ants. I use tweezers when interacting with my ants, never my bare hands. Maybe somehow remnants of flea medicine was somewhere in their outworld? Then again the die off has been happening for a long time, not just suddenly this week. I havent fed the nectar to any other ant colonies, I don't have any others right now.


 

 

I hate to say this, but I think this colony is a lost cause.

 

The queen hasnt displayed any of the behaviors the workers have and she's been through them dying off for about a month, I still have hope they can bounce back

[M_Ants]

 

I am unsure of wild collection because I have never done it or heard of collecting it. I assume it could work. It would probably be more messy though than spending the $4 on it from the link i posted for the pure crystalized version. That worker is also acting very abnormally, as I assume you came to the conclusion of as well. I am unsure if that is a hydration issue as I have not noticed a behavior change in ants from lack of water, only shriveling up and random deaths. I hope it is not some macro parasite. 

Eh I'm not gonna work out shipping and payment with someone over bird poop, it cost $10 on amazon for a pound but a pound is too much I wouldn't know what to do with it. Ill try wild collected when the time comes and yes this is how workers acted before dying, I mentioned the behavior in my first post. I hope it isn't parasitic either

 

 

Have you fed them fruit? Do you always wash your hands before doing anything ant related? Do you have a dog or cat with flea medicine on it? Have you fed the nectar to any other colonies?

I have fed them orange and peach, I washed and removed the skin, they were small pieces. I do have a dog that had flea medicine on it about a week ago, I don't wash my hands everytime I interact with the ants. I use tweezers when interacting with my ants, never my bare hands. Maybe somehow remnants of flea medicine was somewhere in their outworld? Then again the die off has been happening for a long time, not just suddenly this week. I havent fed the nectar to any other ant colonies, I don't have any others right now.


 

 

I hate to say this, but I think this colony is a lost cause.

 

The queen hasnt displayed any of the behaviors the workers have and she's been through them dying off for about a month, I still have hope they can bounce back

 

 

 

I would go straight to blaming the flea medicine. If you look through my journals and posts you'll see it has wreaked havoc on my colonies. It is unfixable once they are contaminated. Workers will wander around and spaz out when affected. The queens will eventually stop laying if affected. Your video shows the same neurological problems my ants always get when affected. Be paranoid from now on about anything and everything that you suspect could be contaminated or could cause contamination. It will especially affect ants in the subfamily Formicinae. The chemicals do not break down quickly indoors. I cleaned a plaster coated outworld that had been sitting for a long time unused and used it and it poisoned a colony.

Edited by M_Ants, September 19 2024 - 2:42 PM.

[M_Ants]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ekYViAdzyEQ

[bmb1bee]

Could also be the orange, as citric acid usually isn't good for the stomachs of some insects (I read about this regarding beetles, but I'm not sure how much it affects ants). 

[MReef]

Could also be the orange, as citric acid usually isn't good for the stomachs of some insects (I read about this regarding beetles, but I'm not sure how much it affects ants). 

Somewhere I saw or heard of people using citrus fruits for ants because the ants use it to deter mites or something, so I imagined it would be fine. When I researched it I couldn't find anyone definitely saying no to citrus, just about people using the rinds on ant hills to make them leave


 

 

 

I would go straight to blaming the flea medicine. If you look through my journals and posts you'll see it has wreaked havoc on my colonies. It is unfixable once they are contaminated. Workers will wander around and spaz out when affected. The queens will eventually stop laying if affected. Your video shows the same neurological problems my ants always get when affected. Be paranoid from now on about anything and everything that you suspect could be contaminated or could cause contamination. It will especially affect ants in the subfamily Formicinae. The chemicals do not break down quickly indoors. I cleaned a plaster coated outworld that had been sitting for a long time unused and used it and it poisoned a colony.

 

It may be the case, the ones dying in your video are very similar to mine. The queen hasnt shown any signs of being poisoned and she's in a clean new test tube so I imagine she is safe from whatever was contaminated now? Ill update if she ends up dying

Edited by MReef, September 19 2024 - 4:57 PM.

[Ants_Dakota]

 

Could also be the orange, as citric acid usually isn't good for the stomachs of some insects (I read about this regarding beetles, but I'm not sure how much it affects ants). 

Somewhere I saw or heard of people using citrus fruits for ants because the ants use it to deter mites or something, so I imagined it would be fine. When I researched it I couldn't find anyone definitely saying no to citrus, just about people using the rinds on ant hills to make them leave

That would be AntsCanada with lemon. It apparently worked for him.

Edited by Ants_Dakota, September 19 2024 - 5:36 PM.

[M_Ants]

 

Could also be the orange, as citric acid usually isn't good for the stomachs of some insects (I read about this regarding beetles, but I'm not sure how much it affects ants). 

Somewhere I saw or heard of people using citrus fruits for ants because the ants use it to deter mites or something, so I imagined it would be fine. When I researched it I couldn't find anyone definitely saying no to citrus, just about people using the rinds on ant hills to make them leave


 

 

 

I would go straight to blaming the flea medicine. If you look through my journals and posts you'll see it has wreaked havoc on my colonies. It is unfixable once they are contaminated. Workers will wander around and spaz out when affected. The queens will eventually stop laying if affected. Your video shows the same neurological problems my ants always get when affected. Be paranoid from now on about anything and everything that you suspect could be contaminated or could cause contamination. It will especially affect ants in the subfamily Formicinae. The chemicals do not break down quickly indoors. I cleaned a plaster coated outworld that had been sitting for a long time unused and used it and it poisoned a colony.

 

It may be the case, the ones dying in your video are very similar to mine. The queen hasnt shown any signs of being poisoned and she's in a clean new test tube so I imagine she is safe from whatever was contaminated now? Ill update if she ends up dying

 

I never had any affected colony survive but maybe you'll get lucky. If she's still laying then that's a good sign. I'd get rid of any workers showing signs of neurological problems so they don't spread anything to her. I'd also clean the outworld thoroughly and consider throwing it away or re-pouring it if it has plaster. 

[Mushu]

This article mentions Campontus collect bird poop, which contain uric acid.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...within the host.

 

You can feed dubia roaches for a good source of uric acid. Fruit flies also generate some, I'd recommend Hydei species. What proteins are you feeding them? There's lots of brood, so that's a good sign. I'd just stick to Humming Bird nectar and safer sources of protein(not wild caught).

 

What form of hummingbird nectar are you feeding? (premixed,concentrated(mixed with water),powder(mixed with water)?)

Edited by Mushu, September 23 2024 - 5:17 AM.