5 replies to this topic

[OliveOilGuy]

Hello everyone,

I have a young Messor barbarus colony that's about 2 months old with around 30 workers. Overall, the colony has been looking healthy. I keep them in my living room, where they're covered from light, but it can get noisy sometimes. I usually check on them about once a week, and they’ve always had enough food. They are still living in the breeding tube and haven’t moved into a nest yet.

Today, I noticed something unusual—the queen was wandering around the outworld area, which she’s never done before. Later, I saw one of the workers dragging her back into the tube, and the queen looked completely still, almost like she was dead. I’ve checked several times since, but she’s showing no signs of movement, laying in the exact same position.

I’m really concerned and have a few questions:

1. Is there any chance my queen might still be alive, or is she definitely dead?
2. What could have caused her death in a relatively stable environment?
3. I’ve read about queen adoption, but I’m not sure if it’s an option with Messor barbarus since they are usually a monogynous (one queen) species. Has anyone tried queen adoption with this species, and is it worth considering?

Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Ljimmy009]

Can you emphasize by "laying"? If the queen has it's legs curled up, then it is likely she is dead. Also, is it possible to send a picture of the setup + surrounding environments? And also, queen adoption is likely not possible in Messor Barbarus. However, you could get a new Messor Barbarus queen and give the old brood to her. Best of luck for your queen!

[Ernteameise]

Well, since I am in a German Messor Facebook group, and this question comes up frequently, it will be near impossible for a colony to accept a new queen. 

People have tried, they also tried the methods used in bees (chilling and vinegar and the like), but the new queen was always killed.

So I would say, if your queen is dead, then your only option would be to buy / collect a new queen (as far as I have seen, Messor barbarus has nuptial flights September / October, so if you are in France/ Spain, you can collect yourself).

As Lijimmi009 suggests, you could give the brood of the old colony to new queen, to give her a boost. The old workers, you could either keep them until they die, or kill them humanely by freezing in a freezer.

 

And as for why queens die.... I had this happen to me, too. In my youth, and only just recently, I collected ant queens, and many of them did not make it, either they were infected with parasites (like that huge parasitic fly which hatches Alien-style from the collected queen as a larva) or they died a few days / weeks after collection. Just imagine that a mature colony can release hundreds of alates, and not all of them will be viable. In Messor barbarus, the mating compatibility is even stronger, they have several genetic types, so to speak, and only if two alates of different types mate, then you will have a viable colony, otherwise, if it is a same/ same pairing, the colony will fail (think of it like our "blood types", it seems as if this has evolved to battle inbreeding).

So who knows, if you can rule out any poison, mold or bad hygiene.

Edited by Ernteameise, September 28 2024 - 1:24 AM.

[mete]

In Messor barbarus, the mating compatibility is even stronger, they have several genetic types, so to speak, and only if two alates of different types mate, then you will have a viable colony, otherwise, if it is a same/ same pairing, the colony will fail (think of it like our "blood types", it seems as if this has evolved to battle inbreeding).

 

I was wondering about this recently. Where can I find more information ? I searched a bit but couldn't find something explaining it in detail yet.

[Ernteameise]

 

In Messor barbarus, the mating compatibility is even stronger, they have several genetic types, so to speak, and only if two alates of different types mate, then you will have a viable colony, otherwise, if it is a same/ same pairing, the colony will fail (think of it like our "blood types", it seems as if this has evolved to battle inbreeding).

 

I was wondering about this recently. Where can I find more information ? I searched a bit but couldn't find something explaining it in detail yet.

 

Here is the scientific paper.

https://royalsociety.../rsbl.2016.0542

 

For looking for the real science, try special search engines like Google Scholar.

And if you run into a paper with a pay wall, try something like SciHub.

[mete]

Here is the scientific paper.
https://royalsociety.../rsbl.2016.0542

For looking for the real science, try special search engines like Google Scholar.
And if you run into a paper with a pay wall, try something like SciHub.

Thanks. Yes, I am familiar with searching papers.

Edit: quite an interesting paper

Edited by mete, September 29 2024 - 1:24 AM.