Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

Kowal's two cents about heating desert ant outworlds

halogen lamp incandescent bulb desert infrared heating radiation

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Kowal - Posted August 11 2024 - 12:51 PM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland
I am a keeper of two species of ants from the genus Cataglyphis, rosenhaueri and nodus, both for about a year now. This genus is known for their preference to forage during the hottest hours of the day, rushing at astounding speeds to do their job before they collapse due to overheating. It's an adaptation to fill a niche - they avoid competition and predators by foraging when it's too hot for them. They can also collect freshly heat stroken insects. Their heat tolerance, while higher than of competitors, is with limits, so their thermal window of opportunity is small. The most known species of this genus, Cataglyphis bombycina, is known to sometimes be able to forage for just 10 minutes - that's how short it takes for the temperature to rise from "too hot for predators and competition" to "too hot even for them".
There are more genera of ants known for same strategy, Aussie keepers are familiar with Melophorus, and Ocymyrmex from South Africa are known to be adapted for just as extreme environment.
 
For keeping such ants I think it's beneficial or even necessary to provide heating and lighting of the outworld during the day to stimulate their instinct to forage during scorching midday.
 
The most primitive method would be placing the outworld in a sunny spot. This is a poor soluton since the intensity of sunlight will vary day to day and over the year. Even assuming this is most natural, since that's what they experience in nature - I don't think their outworld will get as hot as soil surface gets outside with a glass window in the way and air temperature inside being usually colder than outside during the day.  
 
Another method is a LED light and a heat mat. This sounds great at first as it allows for arbitrary and independent temperature and light intensity setting. I personally decided to never try it, as in my opinion it would be comparable to walking on hot rocks in the evening rather than scorching midday sun, since all of the heat would be coming from the bottom, and light would not bring any heat.
 
I opted for using a halogen lamp. It provides both heat and light at the same time, and I think the heat comes to the ants in most natural manner, as it's coming in form of infrared radiation - it heats the ant body from the top just like Sun would. It's not exactly like sun, but I think this is the best compromise.¹ It also just looks really neat and natural, leading to pleasant observation and photography of the ants.
 
20231118_004358.jpg
 
I have observed that both colonies like the heated part of the outworld very much. Cataglyphis rosenhaueri are mostly running in the heated part of their outworld. I often see Cataglyphis nodus climbing the rock in the picture even when there is no food to be found there. It's closer to the light bulb, resulting in temperature over 50°C on top of it! I think they come there due to their heat loving instinct telling them it's a better spot for foraging. I am thinking about changing the bulb for a 35 W one to see how will they react to even higher surface temperatures.
 
 
For reference: I use 20 W 12 V bulbs in MR16 size format (bulb with a reflector part forming a beam) placed around 23 cm away from soil surface, which results in about 20 K temperature increase directly under the bulb. Of course this will vary between setups due to differences in soil reflectivity, air movement, etc., so take this value with a grain of salt. I provide this data just so you have any idea of order of magnitude of lamp power needed to achieve a soil temperature increase. 
I run the halogen lights for about 10 hours a day. I do not have much experience with hotness of deserts, but I think that's enough time to simulate the hot part of the day. Cataglyphis rosenhaueri commonly stop foraging a good while before the light turns off, suggesting they understand that day will come to an end at some point and after x hours pass it's safer to cease activity before competition/predators become active again. C. nodus are less bound by their diurnality, but their behaviour also supports the concept of heating the outworld during the day.
 
Some things to take into consideration:
- Reflector material of your bulb. TL;DR there are two types available: a dichroic coat or aluminum coat. Dichroic coat is designed to pass the infrared part of radiation through it, to the back of the bulb. It's good for using the halogens as exhibit light, but it's terrible for using it as a directional heat beam. You need the aluminum coated reflector. I found out that if the bulb is not sold as intended for terraristic purposes, then it is practically guaranteed to be dichroic, so unfortunately - it makes sense to buy the expensive terraristic product rather than 3-4x cheaper general purpose halogen bulb... I use LUCKY REPTILE Halogen Sun LV and they are working well for me, creating a 20 cm ring of light - leaving plenty space on the sides of the outworld for thermal refuges.
- For bulb housing I just bought some cheap home ceiling fixture,, replaced the socket inside, made a hole for the cable, secured the hole edge so it won't cut into the cable and called it a day. It costed about 4€ and even has a mechanism for rocking the bulb to change the direction of the light beam a little. You must make sure the fixture is rated for the power of the bulb you're going to use! And now, in the era of LEDs rated at "incandescent equivalent power" you have to be extra careful whether the rating is not for this equivalent LED only...
- While halogen is very efficient at radiating heat from input energy compared to incandescent bulbs or ceramic infrared heaters, it still is wasting a lot of energy. This means two things: increased electricity bill and heating of the shelf ceiling. You should be very careful about placing any animal setup directly above the desert setup as you can very easily overheat it.
- You might want to use a low voltage bulb variant. Due to some black magic (which I can explain if you're really curious) low voltage halogen is more efficient (you get higher surface temperature from same electrical power consumed). This unfortunately means you need a power supply too. Fortunately there are cheap circuits specifically for halogen lamps available - they generate quite a lot of electrical noise, though. Another, more practical problem is that they have a minimum power rating - you can't plug a 10 W bulb to a 20-60 W power supply, it will fail to operate reliably.
If you don't feel like understanding any of it, just screw the (advertised 25%) better efficiency and use mains powered halogen bulbs for peace of mind and simplicity. Keep in mind that due to me using the LV variant, you will get lower temperature from a 20 W in same setup as mine. 
 
 
¹ For nerd reference: Sun surface  temperature is 5772 K, and to match sunlight we would need an incandescent bulb being able to run that hot. This is impossible, since the metal used for filament melts at about 3700 K, and nothing better really exists. Halogen bulbs use a clever chemical trick to prolong life of the filament at high temperatures, allowing them to operate it at temperatures up to 3400 K. At this temperature the spectrum is infrared shifted compared to Sun.. resulting in relatively more heat compared to visible light being generated. I personally don't think ants really mind the visible light intensity being only 1/5 of what they would experience in nature. See graphs in the link below to understand how much does temperature of the filament affect the spectrum.
A halogen lamp is a special variant of incandescent lamp, which has some halogen added to it. Due to how it interacts with tungsten it can be operated at higher temperature for same lifespan of a bulb. Temperature of the filament dictates the output spectrum of the lamp and amount of energy radiated, which is why halogen produces whiter light and more radiated heat than standard incandescent light of same electrical power consumption. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


  • ANTdrew, RushmoreAnts, Ants_Dakota and 6 others like this

#2 Offline mete - Posted August 13 2024 - 10:48 AM

mete

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • LocationSwitzerland

Nice post and nice looking setup. I am also thinking about lighting and heating for my small setup (20x20x10 arena) and your post is touching exactly the topics I have been thinking.

 

I do agree with your general points like: "I think the heat comes to the ants in most natural manner, as it's coming in form of infrared radiation - it heats the ant body from the top just like Sun would." and about heat mats: "in my opinion it would be comparable to walking on hot rocks in the evening rather than scorching midday sun, since all of the heat would be coming from the bottom, and light would not bring any heat.".

 

But it seems to me it is quite hard to optimize everything (heat output, color/CRI, light intensity, automation for imitating the day) just with a single source (like a halogen lamp). I guess that is the reason why the light and heat source is addressed separately. I wonder what others are thinking.



#3 Offline Kowal - Posted August 13 2024 - 10:46 PM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland

To me the issue of optimization is fairly simple, because I just assumed that not hitting the levels of lux of sunlight is not crucial, and I focused primarily on getting the soil surface to satisfactory temperature. Perhaps I am wrong - but my results with Cataglyphis are satisfying me. I would love two cents from other desert species and genera keepers, what do they think about light intensity - is it important to hit the daylight levels or is it enough to just provide some light to trigger the diurnality of such ants. For reference, according to data from manufacturer of the bulb I am using the outworld is getting somewhere between 6000 and 10000 lux, whereas daylight is about 20000 lux and direct sunlight can be up to 120000 lux. My previous remark about hitting 1/5 of sunlight lux was based on data from a different source, this time I took values from wikipedia. So yeah, far from the most eye-gouging intensity the Sun can produce. If I found this was an issue I would attempt providing extra light with LEDs or changing the concept altogether. I also like the fact the setups are not iluminating my room on cloudy days with strength of a literal star, with a hundred thousand lux it would probably be painful to just look at the soil. 
 

I was initially thinking about a way to simulate mornings and evenings with a truncated sine wave or just a ramp up and ramp down control, but I dropped the concept as it was too complex to implement (since relation between applied voltage and resulting radiation is  highly nonlinear) and would probably shorten lifespan of the bulbs (halogen can't be operated too cold or else halogen-tungsten cycle won't occur). This perhaps would be easier to simulate using a heating mat and light like LED, since relation of power and voltage in a resistor is far less complicated and simple conduction heaters don't degrade due to on/off or lower voltage control. 

Hitting good CRI with halogen comes naturally, since CRI is an index practically based on incandescent lamps, so halogen gets a 100 score by the very definition. The CRI is specified for a light temperature, though, so hitting 100 CRI at 3000 K does not mean having same color rendition as in the sunlight. 


  • Ants_Dakota likes this

#4 Offline mete - Posted August 14 2024 - 9:47 AM

mete

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • LocationSwitzerland

I understand, it is a pretty good solution, also good looking.

 

I wonder if the heating mat/cable can be preferred because it can be installed on a corner/edge and there will be a natural temperature gradient. With a heat source above, this is probably harder to do, even if the source is not exactly in the center, I guess the gradient on the soil will be less pronounced.

 

As I have a small arena, I tried using a 10W cement resistor with 12V (at just under 2W) and it heats up to ~70C and starts heating the arena when mounted just at the top of the arena (10cm in my case). Because it is small, and it does not change the light, I can put it pretty close so it is I think more effective than using a lamp above. I did not measure the soil temperature but I guess soil temperature follows. I am considering to use something like this first before using a lamp or heating mat/cable.



#5 Offline Kowal - Posted August 16 2024 - 9:00 AM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland

Placing a hot resistor on the side of an outworld certainly produces a nice gradient, but I am not sure how is it supposed to be natural.

In the meantime I tested a 35 W halogen in place of the 20 W one. Result: soil temperature at 22-23 cm distance reached 53°C, a black probe placed on top of the rock crossed 60°C. 
And Cataglyphis nodus were still climbing up the rock.
Unfortunately I feel I can't provide them this insanity due to the fixture becoming alarmingly hot. Inserting the probe just nest to the cables in the back had shown 80°C, that's also the temperature of metal-shelf contact. I am not sure how heat resistant is IKEA furniture, but I'd rather not find out the smoldering temperature empirically. 


Edited by Kowal, August 16 2024 - 9:00 AM.


#6 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted August 16 2024 - 9:34 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,391 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

What an incredibly informative and detailed post; thank you for the time you put into making it! I find your setup both very aesthetic as well as functional and natural for all ants, not just desert species. Is the white box in the top right corner the power supply you speak of in your post?


Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#7 Offline mete - Posted August 16 2024 - 10:48 AM

mete

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • LocationSwitzerland

Placing a hot resistor on the side of an outworld certainly produces a nice gradient, but I am not sure how is it supposed to be natural.


Side mount gives a temp gradient like a heat mat, but I meant mounting on top, not side. So not very different than having a lamp on top, just with no light and more close to the sand surface. However side mount might be better due to the gradient, provides more options to ants I guess.

#8 Offline Kowal - Posted August 17 2024 - 12:51 AM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland

What an incredibly informative and detailed post; thank you for the time you put into making it! I find your setup both very aesthetic as well as functional and natural for all ants, not just desert species. Is the white box in the top right corner the power supply you speak of in your post?

Yes. There are special circuit designed for halogen lamps, but you can also use a standard 12 V DC power supply too. The specialised circuits are, comperatively, rather primitive, so you can get a power supply of right power rating cheaper than the standard wall wart. The halogen power supplies do not provide a clean DC output - quite the contrary, they provide very noisy voltage which averages to about 12 V (usually 11,5 V). It works, since the filament does not change temperature significantly between pulses. The pulses are still modulated by mains frequency and that creates a slight beat of the brightness, impossible to notice with naked eye but my camera picks it up while taking a video, so if you want to take many videos then I recommend either matching FPS to mains frequency (easier done in the US) or using a DC power supply.  

 

 

Placing a hot resistor on the side of an outworld certainly produces a nice gradient, but I am not sure how is it supposed to be natural.


Side mount gives a temp gradient like a heat mat, but I meant mounting on top, not side. So not very different than having a lamp on top, just with no light and more close to the sand surface. However side mount might be better due to the gradient, provides more options to ants I guess.

 

Ah, so you're just making your own black body radiator :D Some heat probably comes through convection, too. I bet you'd get more result if you'd hang a 2 W incandescent bulb above the outworld, especially with any form of reflector. My first reflector for a dichroic coated bulb was just a piece of metal sheet. 
 


Edited by Kowal, August 17 2024 - 11:33 PM.

  • Ants_Dakota likes this

#9 Offline Mushu - Posted September 5 2024 - 1:51 PM

Mushu

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • LocationAlhambra, California
Great setup and post. Ever since I watched a documentary on Sahara silver ants on YouTube and keeping honeypot ants(who have evolved similar survival characteristics) the subject of heat vs nest temperature, and outworld temperature has piqued my interest. That is actually one of my dream species and briefly thought about their needs in a captive environment.

From my limited research and please correct me if I’m wrong.

The surface of the sand/ground(not sure how deep down ) is the hottest part of the desert. The ants traverse in a manner where they keep their body high off the ground for the lower temperature. They will occasionally get to even higher ground for more relief, so I wonder if the instinct to go on top of the rock is due to that, get to higher ground, except they do not know it’s hotter closer to the lamp.

I’ve looked up temperature differences x feet deep compared to surface temperature and my understanding is it’s about 10 degrees cooler past the hottest areas of the surface and gradually averages out to the average annual temperature once you get deep enough. Workers release heat absorbed when cooling off in the nest.

That is why it is good to have an heat gradient in nests. From what me and my friend experience, the preferred(before they love the brood) brooding temp for pupae is about 85 degrees using an infrared temperature sensor to check the surfaces. I’m curious as to what these species prefer.

As for foraging, I planned to have a 20 gallon tank with desert environment and mini cactus and an overhead light. I already have the tank but my dilemma is how I want to implement it without the ants trying to dig into it. During the thought process however I thought to myself, ants don’t live in the heat, they survive in it. Meaning, spring is their most plentiful time of the year and it’s not scorching hot. They evolved to survive the hottest parts of the year, but not thrive, so they don’t need to survive in a captivity as we can always provide a thriving environment.

However your post has brought up very good points for Cataglyphis genus in their evolved behavior to avoid predators and the highest chance to find freshly heatstroked prey. I do notice my honeypots will forage at night(dark) as long as the temperature is ideal for foraging. However yours may be a bit different due to their evolved behavior and may be more reliant on light, so it really depends on the genus and species.

For instance a research paper I read indicates Myrmecocystus mexicanus prefer to forage in cooler temperatures than Myrmecocystus mimicus. They ran tests on the highest temperature before they become docile and on average M. mimicus went docile at higher temperatures. So perhaps it’s more temperature related in this sense why M. Mexicanus is more nocturnal and perhaps to avoid competition with other species. I am curious what the minimum foraging temperature is for your ants and would they forage in the dark if it’s the ideal temperature with no light(heating cable).

You should open up a journal, would love to follow the progress of your ants and your observed behaviors.

Edited by Mushu, September 5 2024 - 1:54 PM.


#10 Offline Kowal - Posted September 8 2024 - 10:25 PM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland

You're right about the temperature gradient inside the soil and the fact of surface being the hottest, as it is the sunlight collector. Just 50 cm below the soil surface the temperature is greatly stabilised and does not show much daily variation, allowing the ants to adapt to this resting temperature. I would disagree on the rock being a place my ants are looking for a thermal refuge, solid rocks get as hot as the sand around it in nature, the thermal  refuges ants take in nature are points with low surface area elevated above the large surface area of the desert - like grass stems, or, like in one of the documentaries, even a leg of a dead beetle. The temperature gradients are drastic near the surface, elevating their bodies just 1 cm off the ground makes a significant difference.

In captivity it would be hard to reproduce the effect of endless desert with evenly heated surface, in my setups ants have plenty of area without direct halogen light. I reckon that is why they could forage in 60°C - they had place to run to to cool down. Studies about their temperature resistance are done by placing the ants in a temperature controlled container and monitoring deaths after 10 minutes, so no way of them escaping the heat at will. They surely can survive short bursts of higher temperature if they can run off once they realise their body temperature is climbing dangerously high.

 

I made a journal for one of my two Cataglyphis colonies. Frankly speaking, I should do one for the other colony too, but just didn't find the time to do so.

https://www.formicul...is-rosenhaueri/


  • Mushu likes this

#11 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted September 9 2024 - 5:11 PM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,391 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

What would be your recommendation for a heating setup that is not as hot, but still has aspects of natural light? I really want to build something like you, but I also don't want to fry my ants, especially because I keep them in closed containers (with mesh covered holes for air).


Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My Nationwide Ant Shop Here I have PPQ-526 permits to ship ants nationwide

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

My Formica sp. Journal

My Lasius sp. Journal

My Micro Ants Journal

My Pogonomyrmex occidentalis Journal


#12 Offline Kowal - Posted September 12 2024 - 11:57 AM

Kowal

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • LocationWarsaw, Poland

What would be your recommendation for a heating setup that is not as hot, but still has aspects of natural light? I really want to build something like you, but I also don't want to fry my ants, especially because I keep them in closed containers (with mesh covered holes for air).

There are lower power halogen bulbs, although I have seen only 10 W with built in reflector, and 5 W in form of just the bulb (you need to buy a fixture with a reflector for that). You can modify the temperature by distance from the outworld, and in case of the naked bulbs without reflectors, also by shaping your own reflector, although this might not be a good idea unless you're confident in your DIY skills. If even a 5 W halogen will be too strong, then you can step down to a regular incandescent bulb - these come with powers as low as 1 W and due to lower filament temperature they emit less heat than a 1 W halogen would. Without a reflector it would barely heat the outworld even hanging 5 cm above it, I suppose. I might check it one day - I have some 1 W bulbs somewhere.

I took a video showing morning behaviour of my Cataglyphis rosenhaueri. They pour out of the nest in large numbers in the mornings, by the evening outworld becomes rather empty, even when the bulb is still shining. I think they have an internal timer which tells them that evening is coming, time to hide before competitor ant species emerge. I think no statistical analysis is needed to say they tend to run in the "sunny" part rather than unlit part of the outworld. The test is a bit biased since the nest entrance is within the hot spot, but not in the middle of it, and they concentrate in the hot area rather than around the entrance. 


Edited by Kowal, September 12 2024 - 11:58 AM.

  • Ants_Dakota and Mushu like this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: halogen, lamp, incandescent, bulb, desert, infrared, heating, radiation

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users