57 replies to this topic

[Ernteameise]

The colony is in diapause now (or so I thought).

I do not think they have grown anymore since the last pupae enclosed in September. But as stated above, they might be ready for their XL Mini Hearth upgrade next year.

Not much is happening (these are Camponotus, they love nothing more than sitting around), so I only updated when I thought something was worth sharing.

"Recycling" of the Messor alates- my Messor colony produced their first queen alates this year. I decided to share these around. As per usual with insect food, I freeze them to kill humanely and then shortly dip them in boiling water. The Messor colony is healthy, so I do not expect too many issues. Plus, ants eat other ants all the time. There are even ants specialized in hunting other ants.

These Camponotus were very interested in their royal dinner, not sure why, they only have the small diapause rested larvae left and as far as I understood, these won't develop before next spring.

[Full_Frontal_Yeti]

I would assume the extra interest in this is the ant POV. For ant POV, any information about the presence and activities of other possibly competitor or predator ants in your area would probably be important to you.

Also some ants (not sure about yours) greatly concern themselevs with what is or is not allowed to be near/around their nest area. The response could be motivated less by food behaviors and more by a danger/problem avoidance behavior. Like how many mammal mommies will eat the baby poop, so it's not giving off odors that would attract predators to the den. Maybe something in a queen ant specifically gives them this reaction to remover her from their area ASAP.

[Ernteameise]

I would assume the extra interest in this is the ant POV. For ant POV, any information about the presence and activities of other possibly competitor or predator ants in your area would probably be important to you.

Also some ants (not sure about yours) greatly concern themselevs with what is or is not allowed to be near/around their nest area. The response could be motivated less by food behaviors and more by a danger/problem avoidance behavior. Like how many mammal mommies will eat the baby poop, so it's not giving off odors that would attract predators to the den. Maybe something in a queen ant specifically gives them this reaction to remover her from their area ASAP.

Great theory....

but.... they dragged the body into their nest. The bits were just sitting there, inside the nest, I did not observe the arrested larvae feeding. Maybe the workers ate some of it. And when they were finished, they dragged the leftovers back up again. I would not call this avoidance and removal behavior. I looked more like food greed.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

From my experiences, ants don't really eat that much protein when they don't have many larva, plus they are soon going into hibernation, so I don't see any reasons why they will gather protein if there are a little amount of larva. The protein could also be a waste of "repletes" (quotations because they have no replete cast) when they could just be storing sugars so they can get through the winter. Also the genus Camponotus has special stomach enzymes so they can live on a diet of mostly sugars also giving the name "Sugar ants"

 

I have read that ants can use also their larva to recycle the nutrients of other ant's exoskeleton by feeding it to them, usually the reason why some parts of the insect's exoskeleton disappear after feeding your ants.

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, December 3 2024 - 9:06 AM.

[Ernteameise]

Right, so these ants have been sitting in their nest for the past weeks and I have seen only the occasional worker come out. I thought they were well and truly in their diapause phase.

However, this evening I had roast chicken for dinner, and I thought I would share with the girls.

This is what happened.

So there is still interest in protein, even if all larvae are in arrested development?

 

[Ernteameise]

I got these girls out of diapause today.

They seem to be doing well and sit on a large pile of brood.

From just one glance, I can see a difference between this species (Camponotus lateralis) to my Camponotus piceus colony:

While the Camponotus piceus are living with their brood on top of their water tower, the lateralis sit with their brood in the corner away from the water tower.

I think since lateralis is an arboreal species, they might need much less humidity.

After I got them back into the warmth, I also offered them a small piece of chicken, but so far, they have shown no interest.

 

 

[Ernteameise]

Today I managed to take a better picture of the massive brood pile of this colony.

So many larvae!

I think if this colony continues to grow, they will be ready for their expansion (XXL Mini Hearth) soon. I am really looking forward to hook the larger nest up with the current nest and watch them conquer the new ground.

I am really happy with how resilient and rewarding this species is.

Plus, they look really beautiful with their dark red head and thorax.

 

[Ernteameise]

I have been to the petstore yesterday and bought 3 fresh packs of life grasshoppers.

The girls are very happy with their offering of locust and came out in force.

Winter diapause is definitely over!

 

And- I repeat myself, but these girls are very beautiful with their coloration.

 

[Ernteameise]

Oh, and I also wanted to share a nice picture of a beautiful physiogastric queen.

She is really planning for the nest expansion this summer!

(I will connect the XXL minihearth later this season).

 

 

[Ants_Dakota]

I just love how large those workers abdomens get! Not many species can rival the storage capacity of Camponotus.

[MyrmecologyMaven]

The queen reminds me of my Formica montana queen! Not much can beat the look of a colony of thick Camponotus! 

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

The queen reminds me of my Formica montana queen! Not much can beat the look of a colony of thick Camponotus! 

In fact, she also reminds me of my Formica queen, from the side she looks like the queen in the picture but from the back she is much thinner.

[Ernteameise]

Comparison of this species to the Formica genus-

Camponotus and Formica are both part of the Formicinae, so yes, similarities are possible.

This species (C. lateralis) is pretty unique in Europe. They are facultative parasites of Crematogaster scutellaris (a Myrmecine), so they also have the dark red head and abdomen and their abdomens also are black and shiny and have this pointy tip of the Crematogaster (best visible in less fat ants, though).

 

As for the comments concerning my overweight Camponotus-

we discussed this previously in another thread.

Consensus was (we looked at some scientific publications) that it is not harmful to be fat for ants (compared to humans, for example) and that it is actually a good sign. Yes, in nature, ants most likely struggle more and have hunger periods and they just won't get this fat. Plus- Camponotus store food in their major workers, so fat ants = larder.

I just take it that we all agree that fat / thicc ants are a good sign.

There are some individuals on an ant Facebook group that actually advertise that you should do hunger periods for your ants, feed less protein and that this would be much more natural and healthy and fast growing colonies with fat workers are actually a bad thing. I had arguments with these people.

Yes, there are scientific publications where, for example, Temnothorax were able to survive for 6 months without food in the lab. They can even survive on a diet of bird droppings. But just because they can (and do) so in nature, do I have to play Hunger Games as an ant keeper?

 

Anyways.

This is the whole colony today. I think in a few months they are ready for their nice shiny expansion.

 

 

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I just think it like this:

Ants are happy, I’m happy.

 

What I usually do is give them food until they are fat like your Camponotus, and then I let them use all of their food reserves and only when they are foraging / exploring their outworld I will give them food again. Basically like a feeding cycle.

[MyrmecologyMaven]

Comparison of this species to the Formica genus-

Camponotus and Formica are both part of the Formicinae, so yes, similarities are possible.

This species (C. lateralis) is pretty unique in Europe. They are facultative parasites of Crematogaster scutellaris (a Myrmecine), so they also have the dark red head and abdomen and their abdomens also are black and shiny and have this pointy tip of the Crematogaster (best visible in less fat ants, though).

 

As for the comments concerning my overweight Camponotus-

we discussed this previously in another thread.

Consensus was (we looked at some scientific publications) that it is not harmful to be fat for ants (compared to humans, for example) and that it is actually a good sign. Yes, in nature, ants most likely struggle more and have hunger periods and they just won't get this fat. Plus- Camponotus store food in their major workers, so fat ants = larder.

I just take it that we all agree that fat / thicc ants are a good sign.

There are some individuals on an ant Facebook group that actually advertise that you should do hunger periods for your ants, feed less protein and that this would be much more natural and healthy and fast growing colonies with fat workers are actually a bad thing. I had arguments with these people.

Yes, there are scientific publications where, for example, Temnothorax were able to survive for 6 months without food in the lab. They can even survive on a diet of bird droppings. But just because they can (and do) so in nature, do I have to play Hunger Games as an ant keeper?

 

Anyways.

This is the whole colony today. I think in a few months they are ready for their nice shiny expansion.

 

 

I find it ridiculous to even think ants being fat is a bad thing. Darwinian evolution is the process of natural selection overtime. One of my favorite examples is that of my middle school science teacher. A group of large round bugs were thrusted upon a habitat of brown sticks with lots of birds. The birds ate most of the bugs because they couldn't blend in. The bugs that were slightly skinnier has a 3% survival advantage. That doesn't seem like a lot but over a million years it adds up. Every generation the bugs got slightly skinnier and skinnier. Until eventually they didn't get eaten by the birds. This example is only possible because of heredity. It always makes me wonder how complex and unlikely life was to exist. What were the chances that LUCA (last universal common ancestor) ever appeared? Anyways because of this, imagine that a species of ant made it to an area with an abundant food supply. Image if they ate it, got fat, and then didn't pass on their genetics because they were slow and fat. Evolution would have selected for ants that could store food for long periods of time and handle it. Good evolutionary solutions are repletes and to a lesser extent major workers. And ants don't get fat like humans do. Most "fat" ants jut have lots of food and liquids in their abdomen. And to OwlThatLikesAnts I would like to say don't do that! Always offer food when the ants aren't in dormancy! Restricting food in my experience only slows colony growth. The only time doing so is a good idea is when the colony is so large you want them to stop growing or get smaller. 

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

The only reason I do that is because I keep power feeding them to the point where all of the workers get fat and reject food (the nanitics only like honey) , basically a way not to get the outworld dirty and waste food

 

(just saying I always have honey available)

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, Today, 11:39 AM.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

 

Comparison of this species to the Formica genus-

Camponotus and Formica are both part of the Formicinae, so yes, similarities are possible.

This species (C. lateralis) is pretty unique in Europe. They are facultative parasites of Crematogaster scutellaris (a Myrmecine), so they also have the dark red head and abdomen and their abdomens also are black and shiny and have this pointy tip of the Crematogaster (best visible in less fat ants, though).

 

As for the comments concerning my overweight Camponotus-

we discussed this previously in another thread.

Consensus was (we looked at some scientific publications) that it is not harmful to be fat for ants (compared to humans, for example) and that it is actually a good sign. Yes, in nature, ants most likely struggle more and have hunger periods and they just won't get this fat. Plus- Camponotus store food in their major workers, so fat ants = larder.

I just take it that we all agree that fat / thicc ants are a good sign.

There are some individuals on an ant Facebook group that actually advertise that you should do hunger periods for your ants, feed less protein and that this would be much more natural and healthy and fast growing colonies with fat workers are actually a bad thing. I had arguments with these people.

Yes, there are scientific publications where, for example, Temnothorax were able to survive for 6 months without food in the lab. They can even survive on a diet of bird droppings. But just because they can (and do) so in nature, do I have to play Hunger Games as an ant keeper?

 

Anyways.

This is the whole colony today. I think in a few months they are ready for their nice shiny expansion.

I find it ridiculous to even think ants being fat is a bad thing. Darwinian evolution is the process of natural selection overtime. One of my favorite examples is that of my middle school science teacher. A group of large round bugs were thrusted upon a habitat of brown sticks with lots of birds. The birds ate most of the bugs because they couldn't blend in. The bugs that were slightly skinnier has a 3% survival advantage. That doesn't seem like a lot but over a million years it adds up. Every generation the bugs got slightly skinnier and skinnier. Until eventually they didn't get eaten by the birds. This example is only possible because of heredity. It always makes me wonder how complex and unlikely life was to exist. What were the chances that LUCA (last universal common ancestor) ever appeared? Anyways because of this, imagine that a species of ant made it to an area with an abundant food supply. Image if they ate it, got fat, and then didn't pass on their genetics because they were slow and fat. Evolution would have selected for ants that could store food for long periods of time and handle it. Good evolutionary solutions are repletes and to a lesser extent major workers. And ants don't get fat like humans do. Most "fat" ants jut have lots of food and liquids in their abdomen. And to OwlThatLikesAnts I would like to say don't do that! Always offer food when the ants aren't in dormancy! Restricting food in my experience only slows colony growth. The only time doing so is a good idea is when the colony is so large you want them to stop growing or get smaller. 

 

I also think it is silly that certain people think that ants being fat is bad for them. Like it is something that I’d expect to hear from the AC kiddy fanbase (they have a bad reputation of spreading wrong info around). Insects and animals have completely different body structure and functions, Ants have 2 stomachs but they don’t even have lungs or a heart like ours! Like are they comparing their overweight cat to their colony?!? You even can see your “fat ants” outside, like the occasional Camponotus worker with a full abdomen outside wondering around without a care. Honeypot ants evolved a special cast to become “fat” so they can survive the most intense desert conditions by waiting it out. So yeah, fat ants? I don’t care if you think it is bad for my colony.

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, Today, 11:35 AM.

[Ernteameise]

 

 

Comparison of this species to the Formica genus-

Camponotus and Formica are both part of the Formicinae, so yes, similarities are possible.

This species (C. lateralis) is pretty unique in Europe. They are facultative parasites of Crematogaster scutellaris (a Myrmecine), so they also have the dark red head and abdomen and their abdomens also are black and shiny and have this pointy tip of the Crematogaster (best visible in less fat ants, though).

 

As for the comments concerning my overweight Camponotus-

we discussed this previously in another thread.

Consensus was (we looked at some scientific publications) that it is not harmful to be fat for ants (compared to humans, for example) and that it is actually a good sign. Yes, in nature, ants most likely struggle more and have hunger periods and they just won't get this fat. Plus- Camponotus store food in their major workers, so fat ants = larder.

I just take it that we all agree that fat / thicc ants are a good sign.

There are some individuals on an ant Facebook group that actually advertise that you should do hunger periods for your ants, feed less protein and that this would be much more natural and healthy and fast growing colonies with fat workers are actually a bad thing. I had arguments with these people.

Yes, there are scientific publications where, for example, Temnothorax were able to survive for 6 months without food in the lab. They can even survive on a diet of bird droppings. But just because they can (and do) so in nature, do I have to play Hunger Games as an ant keeper?

 

Anyways.

This is the whole colony today. I think in a few months they are ready for their nice shiny expansion.

I find it ridiculous to even think ants being fat is a bad thing. Darwinian evolution is the process of natural selection overtime. One of my favorite examples is that of my middle school science teacher. A group of large round bugs were thrusted upon a habitat of brown sticks with lots of birds. The birds ate most of the bugs because they couldn't blend in. The bugs that were slightly skinnier has a 3% survival advantage. That doesn't seem like a lot but over a million years it adds up. Every generation the bugs got slightly skinnier and skinnier. Until eventually they didn't get eaten by the birds. This example is only possible because of heredity. It always makes me wonder how complex and unlikely life was to exist. What were the chances that LUCA (last universal common ancestor) ever appeared? Anyways because of this, imagine that a species of ant made it to an area with an abundant food supply. Image if they ate it, got fat, and then didn't pass on their genetics because they were slow and fat. Evolution would have selected for ants that could store food for long periods of time and handle it. Good evolutionary solutions are repletes and to a lesser extent major workers. And ants don't get fat like humans do. Most "fat" ants jut have lots of food and liquids in their abdomen. And to OwlThatLikesAnts I would like to say don't do that! Always offer food when the ants aren't in dormancy! Restricting food in my experience only slows colony growth. The only time doing so is a good idea is when the colony is so large you want them to stop growing or get smaller. 

 

I also think it is silly that certain people think that ants being fat is bad for them. Like it is something that I’d expect to hear from the AC kiddy fanbase (they have a bad reputation of spreading wrong info around). Insects and animals have completely different body structure and functions, Ants have 2 stomachs but they don’t even have lungs or a heart like ours! Like are they comparing their overweight cat to their colony?!? You even can see your “fat ants” outside, like the occasional Camponotus worker with a full abdomen outside wondering around without a care. Honeypot ants evolved a special cast to become “fat” so they can survive the most intense desert conditions by waiting it out. So yeah, fat ants? I don’t care if you think it is bad for my colony.

 

What should I say? As sad as it is, some people are idiots. Sadly, these people can be very vocal (and toxic) on social media. There is also no use arguing with them. I have made this mistake. I will refrain on doing it again. I have left several animal groups on FB because of the semi-religious non-scientific dogma sprouted by some groups (even by the admins) and never ever (no way!) will I ever mention again that I am a vet.

The abuse heaved upon you will be incredible.

(very basic example- animal nutrition. Very easy to start some massive male cattle poo storm there if you say one wrong word, and no, this is not only for ants but pretty much every animal kept as a pet)

Nah, left the group, and let them stew in their toxic brew of stupidity.

 

Anyways, while my Camponotus are fat, they still take food, so I think I am fine with what I am doing. I try to keep an equilibrium with keeping them satisfied without starving them or having food spoil.