21 replies to this topic

[Zeko]

1. Found queen near river in Tracy, CA. 

2. 3/23/2024

3. Colony near a river, sandy soil. 

4. Found on March 12th, 2024. 

5. Stripes on gaster, dark orange legs. 

6. Nothing differential.

7. Sand nest, very substantial amount of sand piled around anthill. 

8. Alates just coming out of hill around 4:25 PM. It was partially cloudy and had rained the day before. Very windy. 

Very similar to Lasius Niger, began to lay eggs very soon after. Does not care about humidity and brightness does not affect it. 

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[futurebird]

Here is the list of recent ants spotted in your county in CA. 

https://www.inatural...t&place_id=1922

 

(Though you might need to refresh the place filter on the upper right, since filters don't seem to load properly from links...)

 

See anything similar? 

 

Can you get a less blurry photo? 

Edited by futurebird, March 23 2024 - 6:29 PM.

[cutchins]

Yeah, try to snap several more pics and select the ones with the best lighting and focus to share here. You can try different zoom levels too.

 

If you can provide an approximate length measurement of the queen in mm that may also help.

 

I wonder if it could be Prenolepis imparis, based on the color and the timing of the capture. Not sure exactly how many ants have nuptials in March.

[Flu1d]

I agree with taking more photos.

[Artisan_Ants]

Just a guess. Perhaps V. pergandei based on the orange legs you provided in the description. She also looks fairly slim unlike that of L. niger. And according to most statistics, L. niger does not fly in March (at least in the US) and flies mainly in the summer (as I believe I have spotted an alate under a street light on the pavement). But of course this is only a guess, and we need much better photos.

Edited by Artisan_Ants, March 24 2024 - 9:17 AM.

[Zeko]

Here are better pictures:

 

 

 

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Edited by Zeko, March 24 2024 - 10:11 AM.

[GOCAMPONOTUS]

looks like Lasius.sp

[Zeko]

Thanks! Also, how do you put which ants you keep under your profile picture?

And what about reputation points?

Edited by Zeko, March 24 2024 - 10:26 AM.

[ReignofRage]

The pictures from today look like Dorymyrmex. I would try to get better pictures. Use some brighter lights, perhaps.

[Artisan_Ants]

Thanks! Also, how do you put which ants you keep under your profile picture?
And what about reputation points?

Reputation points are earned when someone likes you post. And It took me a while to figure out, but the signature option enables you to put whatever text you want below your profile pic.

[Artisan_Ants]

Taking a closer look it does look very similar to Lasius. The head is more triangular than that of Lasius though. And Dorymyrmex looks similar to Lasius; especially the queens. Dorymyrmex insanus or D. insanus a highly vulnerable species seems like the best ID for this queen as these guys fly practically every month. And like you said; this species does indeed have orange legs in certain variants (which vary). They also have the stripes on their gaster like mentioned before. These species also tend to live in open dry areas like fields near good soil. In the other hand; L. niger usually do not fly in March (and this queen couldn’t be accidental either since she has no wings and already has eggs). Honestly, in conclusion; It makes more sense to consider Dorymyrmex like ReignofRage stated; than Lasius.

Edited by Artisan_Ants, March 24 2024 - 12:45 PM.

[PurdueEntomology]

Ahh, lateral and dorsal images of clarity are immensely needed when trying to identify ants when only images are at hand.  

[Artisan_Ants]

Ahh, lateral and dorsal images of clarity are immensely needed when trying to identify ants when only images are at hand.

Yeah you have a point.

[The_Gaming-gate]

I’m actually not too sure it’s Lasius niger. Lasius neoniger is the closet Lasius species, but the head shape does not match. I would say Dorymyrmex sp. but if you look at google images of Dorymyrmex you will find that the head width is almost always smaller than the width of the gaster, but with this queen the head is the same width as the start of the gaster. We really need either an approximate size or an image of a worker.


Back to looking at ants, I looked to Forelius as they look similar, but they are much too slim. Due to head size I looked at some parasites such as Polyergus, but the gaster shape looks a bit off. But then I remembered, there are parasitic Lasius too. I looked at L. umbratus and she really looks like one.

The head shape is a close match, though not identical. The head width matches the gaster, and both umbratus and the mystery queen appear to be roughly the same size.


If she is truly a Lasius umbratus queen, then she is a parasite and you will need to collect workers and brood from another Lasius colony. You should be able to go back to the one you found. Collect callows if you can, and make sure to place the ants in a cooler or refrigerator before introducing them to the queen, that way the workers will not be hostile toward your queen. Good luck!

Edited by The_Gaming-gate, March 26 2024 - 3:08 PM.

[ReignofRage]

I’m actually not too sure it’s Lasius niger. Lasius neoniger is the closet Lasius species, but the head shape does not match. I would say Dorymyrmex sp. but if you look at google images of Dorymyrmex you will find that the head width is almost always smaller than the width of the gaster, but with this queen the head is the same width as the start of the gaster. We really need either an approximate size or an image of a worker.

 

Back to looking at ants, I looked to Forelius as they look similar, but they are much too slim. Due to head size I looked at some parasites such as Polyergus, but the gaster shape looks a bit off. But then I remembered, there are parasitic Lasius too. I looked at L. umbratus and she really looks like one.

The head shape is a close match, though not identical. The head width matches the gaster, and both umbratus and the mystery queen appear to be roughly the same size.


If she is truly a Lasius umbratus queen, then she is a parasite and you will need to collect workers and brood from another Lasius colony. You should be able to go back to the one you found. Collect callows if you can, and make sure to place the ants in a cooler or refrigerator before introducing them to the queen, that way the workers will not be hostile toward your queen. Good luck!

 

Lasius umbratus is an Old World species that is non-existent in California. A gaster width/head width indice is not too useful considering that the gaster of ants expand and contract giving an unstable measurement. However, in the first image from post #6, it shows the head being narrower than the gaster. It looks like a very normal, "run-of-the-mill" Dorymyrmex gyne from California.

 

Dorymyrmex insanus or D. insanus a highly vulnerable species seems like the best ID for this queen as these guys fly practically every month. And like you said; this species does indeed have orange legs in certain variants (which vary). They also have the stripes on their gaster like mentioned before. These species also tend to live in open dry areas like fields near good soil. In the other hand; L. niger usually do not fly in March (and this queen couldn’t be accidental either since she has no wings and already has eggs). Honestly, in conclusion; It makes more sense to consider Dorymyrmex like ReignofRage stated; than Lasius.

 

The vulnerable status is from an erroneous study that blindly added a lot of species to the red list. Additionally, There's no real way to truly go past a genus identification if it is Dorymyrmex, as there is quite a few undescribed species in the "D. insanus-complex" which is within the "Conomyrma"/D. pyramicus-clade outlined by Oberski (2022). The "flying every month" is simply due to "different species" of D. insanus having different flight periods. The lighter coloration on the terminating edges of the gastral terga is common across numerous Dorymyrmex species and is inconclusive of even pointing to a species group. The habitat of the species complex ranges from high elevation mountains that have snow for months every year to negative elevation desert and is far from restricted to fields.

[ReignofRage]

Just a guess. Perhaps V. pergandei based on the orange legs you provided in the description. 

 

Just wanted to ask where you've seen orange-legged Veromessor pergandei.

[gcsnelling]

In that location it is likely either Linepithema or Dorymyrmex. Wing scars would for the most part preclude argentines although on rare occasions I have seen such scars on that species.

Edited by gcsnelling, March 27 2024 - 2:29 AM.

[The_Gaming-gate]

I’m actually not too sure it’s Lasius niger. Lasius neoniger is the closet Lasius species, but the head shape does not match. I would say Dorymyrmex sp. but if you look at google images of Dorymyrmex you will find that the head width is almost always smaller than the width of the gaster, but with this queen the head is the same width as the start of the gaster. We really need either an approximate size or an image of a worker.

Back to looking at ants, I looked to Forelius as they look similar, but they are much too slim. Due to head size I looked at some parasites such as Polyergus, but the gaster shape looks a bit off. But then I remembered, there are parasitic Lasius too. I looked at L. umbratus and she really looks like one.

The head shape is a close match, though not identical. The head width matches the gaster, and both umbratus and the mystery queen appear to be roughly the same size.


If she is truly a Lasius umbratus queen, then she is a parasite and you will need to collect workers and brood from another Lasius colony. You should be able to go back to the one you found. Collect callows if you can, and make sure to place the ants in a cooler or refrigerator before introducing them to the queen, that way the workers will not be hostile toward your queen. Good luck!

Lasius umbratus is an Old World species that is non-existent in California. A gaster width/head width indice is not too useful considering that the gaster of ants expand and contract giving an unstable measurement. However, in the first image from post #6, it shows the head being narrower than the gaster. It looks like a very normal, "run-of-the-mill" Dorymyrmex gyne from California.

Dorymyrmex insanus or D. insanus a highly vulnerable species seems like the best ID for this queen as these guys fly practically every month. And like you said; this species does indeed have orange legs in certain variants (which vary). They also have the stripes on their gaster like mentioned before. These species also tend to live in open dry areas like fields near good soil. In the other hand; L. niger usually do not fly in March (and this queen couldn’t be accidental either since she has no wings and already has eggs). Honestly, in conclusion; It makes more sense to consider Dorymyrmex like ReignofRage stated; than Lasius.

The vulnerable status is from an erroneous study that blindly added a lot of species to the red list. Additionally, There's no real way to truly go past a genus identification if it is Dorymyrmex, as there is quite a few undescribed species in the "D. insanus-complex" which is within the "Conomyrma"/D. pyramicus-clade outlined by Oberski (2022). The "flying every month" is simply due to "different species" of D. insanus having different flight periods. The lighter coloration on the terminating edges of the gastral terga is common across numerous Dorymyrmex species and is inconclusive of even pointing to a species group. The habitat of the species complex ranges from high elevation mountains that have snow for months every year to negative elevation desert and is far from restricted to fields.

These are some good points which do indeed suggest a Dorymyrmex queen. I do have to say that her head (even without comparing to her gaster) does seem longer than a D. insanus queen, but despite this she is most definitely a Dorymyrmex queen. As stated before it will be very helpful if we could get an image of the worker, or some more close up images showcasing both a side and top view again, to properly view the ant in question.

[Artisan_Ants]

Just a guess. Perhaps V. pergandei based on the orange legs you provided in the description.

 
Just wanted to ask where you've seen orange-legged Veromessor pergandei.

This I’ve seen it in some pics. They have a very light orange color on the tips of their legs (at least for the queen). But based on what you are saying: I guess that’s just some kind of variant.

[ReignofRage]

These are some good points which do indeed suggest a Dorymyrmex queen. I do have to say that her head (even without comparing to her gaster) does seem longer than a D. insanus queen, but despite this she is most definitely a Dorymyrmex queen. As stated before it will be very helpful if we could get an image of the worker, or some more close up images showcasing both a side and top view again, to properly view the ant in question.

 

 

The head length is in very normal proportions to the standard D. "insanus" gynes. I do agree better images of the gyne would be of aid.

 

 

 

Just a guess. Perhaps V. pergandei based on the orange legs you provided in the description.

 
Just wanted to ask where you've seen orange-legged Veromessor pergandei.

This I’ve seen it in some pics. They have a very light orange color on the tips of their legs (at least for the queen). But based on what you are saying: I guess that’s just some kind of variant.

 

 

The apical tarsi segments appearing lighter in color is simply due to how thin the segments are. There is no known variants of V. pergandei which has close to a century of rather in-depth research done on the species.