3 replies to this topic

[The_Gaming-gate]

I’ve heard that even polygynous queens will sometimes fight each other, or take turns laying eggs which slows down growth of the colony. So I have a plan that could potentially fix it? (Will only work with medium or large sized ants, and it also assumes workers won’t kill the queens.)

Let all of your queens found together. For this example we will assume you have two queens. Once they get nanitics, separate the queens into different test tubes that connect to the same outworld. Poke a hole in the cotton of their test tube, or use a small straw the queens don’t fit through.


Since the queens don’t have access to the others, they won’t adjust their egg laying to conditions of a polygynous colony and will lay at the rate a solo queen would. But the workers will still interact with both queens, and otherwise still be a united colony.


Pros:

- Queens cannot kill each other since it is impossible to enter the other tube.

- If a queen dies, lays less eggs, or has some other issue, you will know exactly which queen it is. If the workers don’t accept one queen, you can know which one you need to remove to save her.




Cons


- Makes the moving process longer and more expensive since you need to buy two formicariums whenever you move them, and you will also have to remove the cotton/straw that kept the queen in, which is sure to cause escapes.

- If the workers or some other insects decide to kill one queen when you are not actively watching, the queen has no escape and will die rather quickly.

This is all pretty hypothetical, and there are not many large ant species (at least not common ones) which are also polygynous that I can test with. This means I am going to need all of you readers to help me see if this is a plan, and changes I need to make.

[futurebird]

It's not always the queens that kill each other. The workers kill the queens. There are many questions about how the workers decide which queens to cull, it's not totally well understood, but the main theory is that queens that lay fewer eggs may be culled. 

 

But this varies a great deal by species and it is likely different in each species, both if the queens fight each other, or the workers do the culling or both along with the reasons why. 

 

But more to the point, ants know how to manage their colonies, I think it's a mistake to try to force them to do things that they don't want to do? (Unless it's a well planned experiment with a clear purpose.) Keeping captive colonies alive is already hard since we put them under extra stress with unnatural conditions, strange nests, not enough foraging space, too much light etc. We put them under this stress to watch them and learn about them. 

 

If it's a species that naturally founds with multiple queens, then, in nature eliminates some as the colony grows I think it's best to let the ants do what they sense needs to be done. But speaking of S. Invicta they are a good candidate for multiple founding and they are in your area. Because S. Invicta is sometimes polygynous sometimes not. And also no one will feel bad if things go south with them as they are invasive. 

 

Personally I've never felt like my colonies were growing too slowly! In fact I feel like they grow so fast it's hard to keep up with their needs. I give my ants the best food I can find, I think that makes them grow in numbers quickly ... I've never understood the idea of having a bunch of queens to try to make a colony large faster... a single queen can do it... the real constraint is the quality of the nest and outworld and the quality of the food (and minimizing stress from noise, lights, vibrations)

[The_Gaming-gate]

It's not always the queens that kill each other. The workers kill the queens. There are many questions about how the workers decide which queens to cull, it's not totally well understood, but the main theory is that queens that lay fewer eggs may be culled.

But this varies a great deal by species and it is likely different in each species, both if the queens fight each other, or the workers do the culling or both along with the reasons why.

But more to the point, ants know how to manage their colonies, I think it's a mistake to try to force them to do things that they don't want to do? (Unless it's a well planned experiment with a clear purpose.) Keeping captive colonies alive is already hard since we put them under extra stress with unnatural conditions, strange nests, not enough foraging space, too much light etc. We put them under this stress to watch them and learn about them.

If it's a species that naturally founds with multiple queens, then, in nature eliminates some as the colony grows I think it's best to let the ants do what they sense needs to be done. But speaking of S. Invicta they are a good candidate for multiple founding and they are in your area. Because S. Invicta is sometimes polygynous sometimes not. And also no one will feel bad if things go south with them as they are invasive.

Personally I've never felt like my colonies were growing too slowly! In fact I feel like they grow so fast it's hard to keep up with their needs. I give my ants the best food I can find, I think that makes them grow in numbers quickly ... I've never understood the idea of having a bunch of queens to try to make a colony large faster... a single queen can do it... the real constraint is the quality of the nest and outworld and the quality of the food (and minimizing stress from noise, lights, vibrations)

These are all great points that I agree with. I'm not too sure the ants would find this unnatural since many ants have satellite nests, and if the test tubes are close enough together they will just think of each tube as a large chamber.

Edited by The_Gaming-gate, March 26 2024 - 2:13 PM.

[rptraut]

Hello Gaming-gate;

My polygynous queens like to have their own space to tend their pile of eggs and small larvae until they are moved to the communal nest by the workers. To make this easier for them I bury small test tubes and or small bottles in the setup where an individual queen can tend her eggs in seclusion. Often a small bottle will only contain the queen and her eggs. The workers still look after them like they were in the main nest. Give them the opportunity and they will sort it out themselves.
RPT